Carrying without LTCH

[Scutter01]

Perhaps, but flash forward 100 years when your great-great grandson has to apply for a permit to attend the church of his choice or read a certain newspaper.

Think that's crazy? I would venture to say that over the course of human history, more people have been killed in the name of religion than most anything else. Religion is, therefore, dangerous, and it must be regulated. I mean, think of the children!

I wonder if he, under the threat of an A misdemeanor, would likewise consent to an unjust usurpation of his Rights?

So, what are you saying? You'd like me to give up my LTCH, carry without a license, get caught, go to jail, then...what, exactly? The licensing laws have already been decided as Constitutional at the highest court in the land. Civil disobedience will serve exactly zero purpose. The way to make a change now is to change the law. The last option is the ammo box, but I will not even entertain the beginnings of that discussion on this board or anywhere else, much less with you.

I'm trying to understand what your point is. I'm fighting to have the law repealed by talking frequently with my legislators about it. I think at this point you're trying to justify illegal carry by claiming that it's legal when, in fact, it's not, no matter how much you claim that it is.

 

[mistap]

Really, I'm not trying to pit myself against you. I'm just trying to contribute to a dialogue where we all might gain better perspectives on the issues facing us.

I am not disputing that it is illegal to carry in Indiana without being licensed by the state. Likewise, I am not advocating that anyone should violate that law.

What I am stating is that by refusing to apply for a license to exercise my Rights, I, as one man, am witholding my consent to be subjected to such and I am refusing to confer legitimacy upon a statue that I find unjust.

 

[Scutter01]

What I am stating is that by refusing to apply for a license to exercise my Rights, I, as one man, am witholding my consent to be subjected to such and I am refusing to confer legitimacy upon a statue that I find unjust.

And I already said that I respect that and that I have no issue with that. Seriously. I actually said that. Go back a few posts and you'll see it. In fact, I'm not going to repeat everything I said in that post because I already said it.

 

[mistap]

See, I knew we'd end up agreeing.

Take care.

 

[HoughMade]

Some may have Constitutional objections to the licensing by the state of what is in actuality a Right reserved by the People at whom's consent that state governs.

If they passed a law requiring you apply for a license to attend church or read the newspaper of your choosing, would you comply?

Make that argument in court...any court, and see where that gets you. We do not live in a theoretical world. The LTCH and various permitting laws have been uniformly upheld. I understand that many people think there should be no restrictions, and I am sympathetic to the view, though it's not one I hold. The facts are this- personal belief about what the law should be won't keep you out of jail...if that's important to you.

 

[OkieGirl]

When I carry that way, I just tuck "Old Fred" in my sock to keep him out of the way. I don't see the problem.

Bahahaha...I would rep you for that if you weren't already maxed out...

 

[mistap]

Make that argument in court...any court, and see where that gets you. We do not live in a theoretical world. The LTCH and various permitting laws have been uniformly upheld. I understand that many people think there should be no restrictions, and I am sympathetic to the view, though it's not one I hold. The facts are this- personal belief about what the law should be won't keep you out of jail...if that's important to you.

I've drawn my line. Where, if I may ask, is yours?

 

[HoughMade]

Good for you. You've drawn your line. You're free to draw it wherever you want based upon your personal beliefs. My point is simply this- our personal lines have absolutely nothing to do with how the law has been, and will be applied. I am not saying that I would never challenge a bad law, very much to the contrary. I will, but using law and arguments that have an actual chance at success.

Where's is my line? No new gun laws.

How do you feel about violent felons having any gun they want? How about the mentally incompetent? Last time I checked, these people were still "people" and the right of the "people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed..." Are there any exceptions or aren't there?

 

[Bunnykid68]

Good for you. You've drawn your line. You're free to draw it wherever you want based upon your personal beliefs. My point is simply this- our personal lines have absolutely nothing to do with how the law has been, and will be applied. I am not saying that I would never challenge a bad law, very much to the contrary. I will, but using law and arguments that have an actual chance at success.

Where's is my line? No new gun laws.

How do you feel about violent felons having any gun they want? How about the mentally incompetent? Last time I checked, these people were still "people" and the right of the "people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed..." Are there any exceptions or aren't there?

I will answer this. If a person is to dangerous to have a gun they are to dangerous to be free. If a person is free they should have the same rights as every other free person.

 

[HoughMade]

Finally, the first consistent person I've encountered yet.

 

[jfryan]

I will answer this. If a person is to dangerous to have a gun they are to dangerous to be free. If a person is free they should have the same rights as every other free person.

And how many convicted murderers have been set free only to commit a similar crime later? You still think that people in this case should be permitted to legally obtain firearms? The justice system in this country is a very imperfect world, and we've all heard stories of people being released early, even for violent crimes and killing again. In a unicorn filled world, these people WOULDN'T be free, roaming the planet, but unfortunately, that's not where we live. Not sure how anyone could think just because someone is "free" that they should have access to weapons. May as well say that convicted sex offenders should be able to work in daycare centers just because they're not in jail anymore.

 

[CBR1000rr]

And how many convicted murderers have been set free only to commit a similar crime later? You still think that people in this case should be permitted to legally obtain firearms? The justice system in this country is a very imperfect world, and we've all heard stories of people being released early, even for violent crimes and killing again. In a unicorn filled world, these people WOULDN'T be free, roaming the planet, but unfortunately, that's not where we live. Not sure how anyone could think just because someone is "free" that they should have access to weapons. May as well say that convicted sex offenders should be able to work in daycare centers just because they're not in jail anymore.

They probably shouldn't have been freed. The point of the correctional system is to modify behavior. The end result of said behavior modification should be that , once released, they no longer pose a threat to society. Unfortunately the system only furthers a criminals criminal education.

 

[Bunnykid68]

And how many convicted murderers have been set free only to commit a similar crime later? You still think that people in this case should be permitted to legally obtain firearms? The justice system in this country is a very imperfect world, and we've all heard stories of people being released early, even for violent crimes and killing again. In a unicorn filled world, these people WOULDN'T be free, roaming the planet, but unfortunately, that's not where we live. Not sure how anyone could think just because someone is "free" that they should have access to weapons. May as well say that convicted sex offenders should be able to work in daycare centers just because they're not in jail anymore.

They do not have to do it legally because they already are going to do it illegally. Why are they free? Who else is filling up those spots in the prisons that we cannot keep murderers in there for ever

 

[CBR1000rr]

I should edit my previous statement but I decided this thought needed its own special box.

I appreciate your concern that criminals are released only to commit more crimes. In response, I revert back to a previous statement and ask why you are willing to submit a few of your rights [that haven't prevented the concerns you expressed] but not willing to submit all of your rights? With your reasoning the only logical resolution is the complete and utter submission of all of your rights including our precious 2A.

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

I was just watching the fun without offering an opinion when a thought occurred to me. I want to ask the guys who refuse to get licensed to exercize a right this question; Are any of you married? Did you obtain a license for this? If you did, then what do you think about doing that? If not then how do you negotiate the legal ramifications involved by not being legally married?

I am not taking sides yet, I am still mulling it over. The ripples seem to go everywhere. Now I am thinking if there are any licensed plumbers out there? Lawyers? Doctors?....... Just studying on the subject.

 

[mistap]

Good for you. You've drawn your line. You're free to draw it wherever you want based upon your personal beliefs. My point is simply this- our personal lines have absolutely nothing to do with how the law has been, and will be applied. I am not saying that I would never challenge a bad law, very much to the contrary. I will, but using law and arguments that have an actual chance at success.

Where's is my line? No new gun laws.

How do you feel about violent felons having any gun they want? How about the mentally incompetent? Last time I checked, these people were still "people" and the right of the "people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed..." Are there any exceptions or aren't there?

I think the playboy guy answered more succinctly than I could have. Once a felon has "paid his debt to society", I believe he should have his Rights, gun and voting, restored.

Mentally Incompetent? Again, refer to the playboy guy.

Who determines what Metally Incompetent is? I fear it's the APA, AMA, etc...

 

[jgreiner]

I really hope that this is a much less common than I am hoping. I was talking to guy I work with who was shot a few years ago. I was talking about how long the wait times for LTCH have been with all the people applying.

He went on to tell me that he carries a 45, has no idea what model, anything about it, just mexican carries it most everywhere he goes.

I tried to explain how irresponsible that was but he really didn't seem to give a ****. Has anyone dealt with someone that has an attitude like that? I'm trying to convince him to apply for his LTCH so that he will be legal but he really doesn't seem interested at all.

People that carry Mexican style tend to go off half cocked.

 

[mistap]

I was just watching the fun without offering an opinion when a thought occurred to me. I want to ask the guys who refuse to get licensed to exercize a right this question; Are any of you married? Did you obtain a license for this? If you did, then what do you think about doing that? If not then how do you negotiate the legal ramifications involved by not being legally married?

I am not taking sides yet, I am still mulling it over. The ripples seem to go everywhere. Now I am thinking if there are any licensed plumbers out there? Lawyers? Doctors?....... Just studying on the subject.

Yes, I am married, and I did apply to the State of Indiana. Marriage is not an Enumerated Right.

I appreciate your concern, but...

I reserve the right to choose at which windmills I shall tilt.

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

Wow! I am so dense! What about driving my car? OK, I know that driving is a privilege (uh..... NO, its not. Not really)

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

Yes, I am married, and I did apply to the State of Indiana. Marriage is not an Enumerated Right.

I appreciate your concern, but...

I reserve the right to choose at which windmills I shall tilt.

I am not concerned at all, I am just studying on the issue and what I think about it. I am thinking that the LTCH is just the tip of an iceberg. The .gov is licensing all aspects of life. the LATCH question started me thinking.