Carry at Children's Musuem?

[bassplayrguy]

There are security cameras everywhere in the Children's Museum. Hundreds. They've *never* lost a child. Very secure.

So, even if you can't carry there, I would think it's about as secure as you're going to get if you're worried about someone kidnapping your child.

Not just this but the area that it is in is bad news. I won't be going up there unarmed so they will not get my money anymore.

 

[GeneralCarver]

Of course we should carry at children museums. Gotta watch out for those "mass finger painters".

 

[BBSparkle]

Are you sure it can't be left in your car in the parking garage? I know many schools allow you to have your gun in your car, as long as you don't get out with it [for picking up the kids after school]. Then again, it may also be that YOU have to be in the car with it, as well, so getting out would make it either illegal or against policy again. Anyone know about this?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Are you sure it can't be left in your car in the parking garage? I know many schools allow you to have your gun in your car, as long as you don't get out with it [for picking up the kids after school]. Then again, it may also be that YOU have to be in the car with it, as well, so getting out would make it either illegal or against policy again. Anyone know about this?

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

It's illegal if your not the driver or if you get out of the car, because you wouldn't be operating it then.

 

[Tripp11]

Of course we should carry at children museums. Gotta watch out for those "mass finger painters".

When you come up with a crystal ball which can tell me exactly how my day will go from start to finish, let me know. Until then, you're exactly like the rest of us with the inability to determine when/where bad things will happen.

Merely because the Children's Museum caters to children doesn't mean someone who is hell bent on killing someone can't enter the premises and do so.

Some of us choose to prepare for the worst, and hope we won't need to utilize those defense tools.

 

[PeaShooter]

In Indiana once a school always a school even if the school is NOT in session. The only time it (the bldg) stops being a school is when it's no longer functioning like a school. For example, in Hammond, IN on Kennedy their is a "little red school house" which was a school way way back 100+ years ago (i think). It's now a museum. So while the physcially bldg is a school its NO longer a school per IC.

Another good example is in Griffith one of the elementary schools was closed last year. The YMCA has taken over the bldg. The bbldg looks like a school but it no longer is per IC so guns are OK in there as well (lEGAL wise).

Careful with this, the law states "School Property", it doesn't even have to be a school, just owned by the school corporation. It could be a vacant lot and still be "School Property" and get you busted.

 

[jedi]

^ This!

Good caught PeaShooter. You are correct. School = school property (bldg, parking lots, grassy area where they play sports, empty lot, etc...)

 

[boileralum]

It's illegal if your not the driver or if you get out of the car, because you wouldn't be operating it then.

But if you are transporting yourself and/or your family (a person/persons) to the museum that houses the school, and leave your gun in your car (such that you are no longer in possession of it), that almost seems like a loophole to me.

 

[jedi]

But if you are transporting yourself and/or your family (a person/persons) to the museum that houses the school, and leave your gun in your car (such that you are no longer in possession of it), that almost seems like a loophole to me.

Sadly that is NOT a loophole.

IC states that NO firearms are allowed on school property unless you fall under one of the various exemptions.

By you leaving your firearm in your car in the museum parking lot you now have a firearm on school property and NO LONGER meet one of the exemptions thus you are in violation of the IC which in this case is a felony.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

But if you are transporting yourself and/or your family (a person/persons) to the museum that houses the school, and leave your gun in your car (such that you are no longer in possession of it), that almost seems like a loophole to me.

Nope, you didn't read the operating part, once your not behind the wheel of the vehicle, your no longer operating it. But your still responsible for what's in it. If you want I'll see if I can find the case law on it, but I'm sure others have it handy. There was a case where a guy went to pick up his kid from school and went in to talk to the teacher. Someone(iirc a janitor) say his pistol in the car when he was out of it. The Indiana Supreme Court ruled that he was not operating the vehicle at the time, and was violating the law.

Sadly that is NOT a loophole.

IC states that NO firearms are allowed on school property unless you fall under one of the various exemptions.

By you leaving your firearm in your car in the museum parking lot you now have a firearm on school property and NO LONGER meet one of the exemptions thus you are in violation of the IC which in this case is a felony.

Yep pretty much.

 

[PeaShooter]

Another note on the "School Property" discussion. A non-school building can become "school property" in the eyes of the law if it is being used for a school function. I cant remember the exact verbage if it was a majority, or exclusive use that qualified it for school property. i.e. A school rents a facility for their prom, and has exclusive use of the facility. That facility and, I assume, its parking lots, etc are considered school property. If a school rents one of many banquet halls a hotel has, that banquet hall is considered school property, while the rest of the hotel is not. Also be aware of Daycare/preschool limitations also. (This might get your church included as a school if they have one or both of these during the week)

That is my understanding of the law, but then again IANAL. YMMV.

 

[jedi]

Another note on the "School Property" discussion. A non-school building can become "school property" in the eyes of the law if it is being used for a school function. I cant remember the exact verbage if it was a majority, or exclusive use that qualified it for school property. i.e. A school rents a facility for their prom, and has exclusive use of the facility. That facility and, I assume, its parking lots, etc are considered school property. If a school rents one of many banquet halls a hotel has, that banquet hall is considered school property, while the rest of the hotel is not. Also be aware of Daycare/preschool limitations also. (This might get your church included as a school if they have one or both of these during the week)

That is my understanding of the law, but then again IANAL. YMMV.

Correct to a point. This **IS** the current gray area of the law especially the example of the prom that y ou give above & how a "non-chuch" property can "magically" become a school. There is sadly NO CASE LAW for this in Indiana right now. The IC was written in such a way that they wanted to make sure no guns would make it to a prom that was done outside of the school but alas in how they wrote up the IC it left a very gray dangerous area as how does a member of society not involved with the school know that Hotel 6 just became a school due to the prom?

Here is another interesting read about how "sunday school" can become a school as well. This has case law behind it!!!

--LEGAL---
A church with any type of educational program for children could be considered a "school"
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...0-no_gun_at_church_anymore-3.html#post1695802

 

[RHorn]

Regarding the preschool in the childrens museum i thought a school was defined as k-12 in indiana?

 

[PeaShooter]

Correct to a point. This **IS** the current gray area of the law especially the example of the prom that y ou give above & how a "non-chuch" property can "magically" become a school. There is sadly NO CASE LAW for this in Indiana right now. The IC was written in such a way that they wanted to make sure no guns would make it to a prom that was done outside of the school but alas in how they wrote up the IC it left a very gray dangerous area as how does a member of society not involved with the school know that Hotel 6 just became a school due to the prom?

Here is another interesting read about how "sunday school" can become a school as well. This has case law behind it!!!

--LEGAL---
A church with any type of educational program for children could be considered a "school"
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...0-no_gun_at_church_anymore-3.html#post1695802

I remember reading about a case where a guy was convicted of carrying on school property for carrying at a school awards banquet being held at a hotel...(obligatory disclaimers IANAL, YMMV)

 

[eldirector]

Regarding the preschool in the childrens museum i thought a school was defined as k-12 in indiana?

From the INGO FAQ (I'll have to dig to find the IC that backs this up):

A more specific list of where you can NOT carry:
k-12 schools, property used for school functions
school buses
Head Start
preschools
private schools
riverboat casinos
airport sterile areas
shipping ports
State fairgrounds during State Fair
Post office (questionable, as it may not actually be Federal property)
Where prohibited by local ordinance, on gov't property

I remember reading about a case where a guy was convicted of carrying on school property for carrying at a school awards banquet being held at a hotel...(obligatory disclaimers IANAL, YMMV)

Yep. If a school leases/rents a facility for their exclusive use (graduation, for instance), then it is now "school property".

 

[Sylvain]

The only question to me is do they have metal detectors and guards with X-ray vision at the doors?
If not then I wouldnt worry.My safety and the safety of my family come before any (stupid) rule, policy or law.

 

[eldirector]

The only question to me is do they have metal detectors and guards with X-ray vision at the doors?

Nope.

If not then I wouldnt worry.My safety and the safety of my family come before any (stupid) rule, policy or law.

Since my and my family's safety is also that important, we just don't go there. No need to commit a felony, when it is so easily avoided.