Carmel

[halfmileharry]

Get facts before making public statements like that...

The revenue the department sees will not pay for the gas used and payroll for making that stop - guaranteed.

I don't know where MY $146 went to.
I do know I was ticketed for an expired dr. license after being pulled over for NO reason. Ran my vehicle on the computer and my expired license showed up. Nothing else. I haven't had a ticket in over 28 years
I'm 60ish, caucasian, polite, clean cut, and drive a nice vehicle. I was even polite and let the Carmel officer in traffic by yeilding the lane to him. I was NOT speeding during lunch time traffic. All lights work, clean vehicle.
The officer was very professional. No issues there.
I guess my # just came up on the lottery w/my Johnson Co. plates.
BS all the way.
I have a lot of respect for the LEO community as a whole.
I'm wondering that since the traffic stops don't pay off then is it a policy to increase the funds of the judicial system, revenue for projects, or what? It's gotta be making $$ for something.
Sour grapes? Call it what you want. It's not a nice thing to do to anyone. I'd be ashamed to make a living like that.
This is NOT how I wish to think of our Law Enforcement Community.
I lived in Hamilton Co. for 10 years, enjoyed living there, and no issues at all. Carmel is OFF LIMITS TO ME AND MY MONEY. NOT another penny will be spent there.

 

[Hayseed_40]

I don't know where MY $146 went to.
I do know I was ticketed for an expired dr. license after being pulled over for NO reason. Ran my vehicle on the computer and my expired license showed up. Nothing else. I haven't had a ticket in over 28 years
I'm 60ish, caucasian, polite, clean cut, and drive a nice vehicle. I was even polite and let the Carmel officer in traffic by yeilding the lane to him. I was NOT speeding during lunch time traffic. All lights work, clean vehicle.
The officer was very professional. No issues there.
I guess my # just came up on the lottery w/my Johnson Co. plates.
BS all the way.
I have a lot of respect for the LEO community as a whole.
I'm wondering that since the traffic stops don't pay off then is it a policy to increase the funds of the judicial system, revenue for projects, or what? It's gotta be making $$ for something.
Sour grapes? Call it what you want. It's not a nice thing to do to anyone. I'd be ashamed to make a living like that.
This is NOT how I wish to think of our Law Enforcement Community.
I lived in Hamilton Co. for 10 years, enjoyed living there, and no issues at all. Carmel is OFF LIMITS TO ME AND MY MONEY. NOT another penny will be spent there.

Expired lic are illegal sorry to hear about your victimization. +1 for the LEO he did what you pay him to do. You were driving illegally and he did his job.

 

[halfmileharry]

Expired lic are illegal sorry to hear about your victimization. +1 for the LEO he did what you pay him to do. You were driving illegally and he did his job.

Agreed. I wan't legal because of an expired license. I guess it could have been worse than "Crossing the Ts and dotting the i's". I might have been doing something wrong in which case I'd expect repercussion.
He and the courts did their job well. Like I said, No more for me. Don't worry about ticketing me again. I'm not going to be in the area.

 

[T.Lex]

The race thing is a complicated issue, but there are certain things I know that are a matter of public record, as long as you know where to look.

I believe one part of the consent decree from the case KF mentioned required certain statistics to be kept, such as the race of the individual stopped. I think the consent decree has expired, but CPD still tries to track it. The last I saw, which I think would have been for 2009, the stats globally reflect no bias in who gets pulled over.

But, you may ask, can't certain officers be biased? Well, sure. Officers are human beings, and we all have our foibles. But, I know of one circumstance that was made public where one officer informally suggested that another officer was acting in a discriminatory way. So, they pulled the records for that officer, and compared it to 2 other officers - one random from the same shift, and another because they felt like that officer was very unlikely to act in a discriminatory fashion.

It turned out that the "suspect" officer's numbers were in line with the other officers' numbers. So, in that case, you have an internal check and balance. To me, that speaks highly of the professionalism and dedication to treating people fairly.

I can honestly say, in my experience, CPD is not racist.

Of course, I, too, saw first hand how MANY people who end up going to court are minorities. I have no explanation for that. And, I've thought about it alot. Carmel offers both diversions and agreed judgments to just about everyone who has a clean record. It is just a matter of calling. Doesn't matter what race, at that point the main idea is to resolve the cases.

Now, for the complicating factor. I have talked to people - normal citizens not in gov't - who live in Carmel. They do not strike me as racist. But, they see a difference between having a racist police force, and having the reputation for having a racist police force. I am not comfortable with the argument, but their logic is that if someone is going to be "riding dirty" from Marion County, and they think the 49 on their plate is going to get them pulled over by the racist CPD, then they are less likely to come to Carmel. Hence, they don't want a racist police department, but they see some utility to having the reputation for having one.

Like I said, that's a complicated issue.

 

[Hayseed_40]

Agreed. I wan't legal because of an expired license. I guess it could have been worse than "Crossing the Ts and dotting the i's". I might have been doing something wrong in which case I'd expect repercussion.
He and the courts did their job well. Like I said, No more for me. Don't worry about ticketing me again. I'm not going to be in the area.

Wow, just wow. I truly am sorry that you were mistreated at the level you were taken to by the LEO. You were truly the victim. Words cannot express the anger I have towards that officer who pulled you over and ticketed you for doing something you know is illegal. Damn the IC to hell...



Disclaimer: Above was heavily ladened with sacarsm.

 

[jcharrison05]

I dont live in the area but i travel there quite often and havent had any problems with leo at all but i drive a clean car and obey the speed limits but i guess i dont fit the "profile" either. So who knows but ill be sure to check my license exp date before my next trip.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Riverrat, I was involved in an incident (well-documented here) in which I was arrested on a trumped-up charge by a Carmel police officer who then perjured himself in court to fill in the gaps in his case.

Fortunately his willingness to commit perjury far exceeded his skill and the judge was not fooled by his fanciful testimony.

Don't have a conversation with a Carmel police officer unless you're recording it.

 

[Indy317]

Hey Carmel/HC folks, I have a non-gun issue that is somewhat related to this thread in terms of general ordinance enforcement by Carmel Police (and/or Code enforcement, if they have a division) when it comes to just living in Carmel.

We will likely be moving within the next couple of year to Hamilton County. I need to live closer to the interstate, so Carmel, Fishers, and some parts of Noblesville. Carmel has more homes we are interested in over all the others: Solid brick/stone home, 1,600+ sq. ft. at least 1/2 acre land. The one thing I don't want is covenants, which I know I will have to ask about when buying a home. However, recently it dawned on me that I'm moving from a more rural-suburban county to a larger municipality. I then discovered a lot of ordinances for all three municipalities.

Once we get a bigger home, I'm really interested in having family and friends up ever few months (or maybe even less than that). I see Carmel has a no burn ban, but allows for residential outdoor fires, but they have to be put out by sundown. If anyone complains about smoke, they can make you extinguish it as it is a nuisance. In addition, some of the ordinances are pretty broad. I like to heat with wood on my days off in the winter. I use higher efficiency stoves and am wondering how the people in the older Carmel neighborhoods are? While the local PDs may not be too bad when it comes to people owning and carrying guns, how are the people of HC? Are there are lot of busybodies? Do folks seem to complain about people burning leaves, limbs, or grass? Do folks complain about people using wood stoves inside their home for heat?

 

[GuyRelford]

I don't know where MY $146 went to.
I do know I was ticketed for an expired dr. license after being pulled over for NO reason.

One legal point that folks may not be aware of: the Indiana Supreme Court has now ruled that LEOs may run license plate checks at random, and if the registered owner of the vehicle comes back as having an expired or suspended license (or having an outstanding warrant, etc.), the LEO has probable cause for a traffic stop unless the LEO has information indicating that the driver is NOT the registered owner, e.g., the owner is male and the driver is female.

I'm typing this from my phone or I'd give you the cite.

I mention this only because it creates the possibility that you weren't actually pulled over for "no reason."

Guy

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Armfield and Holly, both from 2009.

 

[GuyRelford]

Armfield and Holly, both from 2009.

Thank you, sir!!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Yeah, well, there's a reason why I know those cases from memory. They come up a lot.

 

[T.Lex]

I use higher efficiency stoves and am wondering how the people in the older Carmel neighborhoods are? While the local PDs may not be too bad when it comes to people owning and carrying guns, how are the people of HC? Are there are lot of busybodies? Do folks seem to complain about people burning leaves, limbs, or grass? Do folks complain about people using wood stoves inside their home for heat?

This is going to sound VERY elitist, and I apologize in advance, but I'm just relaying my observations.

In Carmel, I think you're going to have a hard time finding a lot/home like you describe that doesn't have covenants. The good news, I guess, is that if you do find something like that, the chance of busybodies goes down. I wish you luck in your search! Get a good realtor - that'll help focus the search.

Every suburban utopia has busybodies. I know because most of them called City Hall over really stupid stuff. I think the part about wood stoves inside won't be a big deal, but burning leaves might be.

The Noblesville area is probably going to have the most options for you. It seems like you're looking West of 69? Have you thought of the Pendelton area? More "ruralness" out there.

And, of course, with these generalizations, I mean no offense. Just sharing my observations.

 

[Smokepole]

Indy317, we live in one of the older Carmel neighborhoods - south of 116th and north of 96th - no stupid covenants or busybody neighbors. Have a neighbor couple of doors down that heats with wood-burning insert in his fireplace. He says that his heating bill in the winter never exceeds $40 a month. He is easy to find, look for the 3 - 4 ricks of wood that he keeps in his backyard. Neatly arranged and not unsightly.

We also have a few in the neighborhood that have wood-burning firepits that you can find burning all during the evening. Love the smell, makes me want to go camping REAL BAD. There is even one home that backs up to Keystone Parkway north of 126th where the firepit is visible from the road.

If you stay away from developments that were built in the last 20 years and look toward the older neighborhoods you can largely stay away from the ridiculous covenants. That's how we approached it.

 

[halfmileharry]

First of all I'll apologize IF I've ruffled anyone's feathers.
This isn't a personal attack on any LEO. Far from it. Like I stated the officer was professional and courteous.
Apparently my lack of writing skills and direction leaves a bit to be desired.
The point I was trying to make is that I feel that I was an out of area driver and that's the only reason I can think of for being ran through the computer. Yes, I wish that I would have asked WHY I was singled out of traffic and ran through the system.. Too late for that now.
I understand that it's an effective law enforcement tool and has a lot of good uses.
I do feel that used improperly it's selective and invasive.
Legal? Apparently. I see merits of it's use when there's a just cause or reason.
But used in this situation I feel that it was an an intrusion into my privacy and misdirected use of technology violating my freedoms and liberties as a law abiding citizen.
I guess the policy of this kind of stop is what's Ruffling MY feathers.
Again, I don't wish to offend or insult anyone.

 

[hooky]

Indy317, we live in an older neighborhood and have very few covenants in our neighborhood. The one's we have are pretty common sense. As far as fires, we have a fire ring and there have been plenty of nights where people have been gathered around the fire well past dark. IMO the worst busybodies are in the newer developments. Some of the stories I hear from friends are unreal.

In the last neighborhood we lived in, the kids in the neighborhood ran go carts on Sunday afternoons. Nobody complained.

 

[Hayseed_40]

First of all I'll apologize IF I've ruffled anyone's feathers.
This isn't a personal attack on any LEO. Far from it. Like I stated the officer was professional and courteous.
Apparently my lack of writing skills and direction leaves a bit to be desired.
The point I was trying to make is that I feel that I was an out of area driver and that's the only reason I can think of for being ran through the computer. Yes, I wish that I would have asked WHY I was singled out of traffic and ran through the system.. Too late for that now.
I understand that it's an effective law enforcement tool and has a lot of good uses.
I do feel that used improperly it's selective and invasive.
Legal? Apparently. I see merits of it's use when there's a just cause or reason.
But used in this situation I feel that it was an an intrusion into my privacy and misdirected use of technology violating my freedoms and liberties as a law abiding citizen.
I guess the policy of this kind of stop is what's Ruffling MY feathers.
Again, I don't wish to offend or insult anyone.

Speculation on my part but, you were not singled out from the group because you were not from these parts but because he ran everyone and you singled yourself out by not being current.

 

[halfmileharry]

Speculation on my part but, you were not singled out from the group because you were not from these parts but because he ran everyone and you singled yourself out by not being current.

He'd just come on the interstate ramp and went no farther. He had no time or gone anyplace other than with me. Talking seconds and only a couple of hundred yards, not a cruise around 465.
I'm not trying to be argumentative and don't wish to seem so.
I support our LEO's and NOT singleing out the officer. As stated he was doing his job.
It appears to be a policy with intentions that I question and apparently I'm whining about. Again, I don't wish to offend anyone here OR even the officer involved.

 

[T.Lex]

Most police agencies in Indiana are aware (or should be) that they can randomly run plates. It is a good deterrent IMHO.

Plus, you would be surprised how often it actually leads to a bigger bust. Ok, maybe you wouldn't be, but it happens pretty often in my experience.

 

[halfmileharry]

Most police agencies in Indiana are aware (or should be) that they can randomly run plates. It is a good deterrent IMHO.

Plus, you would be surprised how often it actually leads to a bigger bust. Ok, maybe you wouldn't be, but it happens pretty often in my experience.

I'm not questioning the legality of it or even the results.
My worry here is "The end justifies the means" is scaring the heck out of me.