Carmel and Lifetime Permit Procedure

[dsom2006]

I have a friend that is getting his first Lifetime Carry Permit. He went to fill out the paper work and get printed. Once he was done and had paid all the fees he was told that he had to set an appointment with the Carmel chief of police to explain why he wanted a permit. He's freaking out and wants to know what reason is acceptable. I told him just to say personal protection. My question is has anyone heard of this before? And secondly unless the fellow says I want to shoot cops and kids is there any way this chief of police can deny his permit? If he can't deny it why is he wasting his time and my tax dollars to meet with this fellow?

 

[norman428]

Yeah some departments can do that. He CAN get denied, not likely. All he has to do is basically say Its my second amendment right to carry a firearm and I want to do so for personal Protection. Done. Unless you have some sort of felony or charge on your record that would make you look bad, don't sweat it.

 

[iamaclone45]

Glad I didn’t have to go through this nonsense here in Tippecanoe County.

I would just stick to the personal protection idea. I also wouldn’t extend the conversation to any more then just giving my reason for wanting a permit. Quite frankly, it’s non of their business.

If he can't deny it why is he wasting his time and my tax dolars to meet with this fellow?

Because it’s Carmel.

 

[MadCity Hoosier]

What...an interview/interrogation? I thought Indiana was a 'Shall Issue' state...meaning unless you are banned under the law from getting the permit, you automatically get it after the paperwork/background check formalities.

I'm glad I didn't have t jump through this "hoop" when I got my permit.

 

[Sgt Rock]

Pursuant to state law, the Chief of Police recommends approve or deny to the issuing authority, the Superintendent, Indiana State Police. No idea how he could say "No" if the application does not indicate a person in ineligible. Indiana is, indeed, a "Shall Issue" state, in the absence of a qualifying reason to deny an applicant, the license to carry a handgun SHALL be issued. Never heard of this before but good luck and I would be interested in his response to your question of "Why"?

 

[goinggreyfast]

The nice officer in Martinsville told me that he wished more citizens had permits & carried. He said it would make the community so much safer if criminals knew most of us were armed. I told him, "Heck, it's Martinsville, I thought we all were anyway." HA!

He did ask why and I said, "For personal protection and because I value my 2nd Amendment right. He said, "Good enough for me."

And a good time was had by all.

 

[miguel]

I had a buddy who lived in Carmel that had to go through it. He was worried about it but afterward said it was not a big deal...a brief encounter, very cordial.

Sucks, but that's what we have right now.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Not to worry...I did the same thing with the previous chief, Fogarty.

I went in with my wife who was also getting her permit. He asked me if I was the retired police lieutenant. When I responded that I was, he said, "Heck, I don't need to talk to you. I'm going to talk to HER." We then had a very cordial chat.

We did find that we had a mutual friend that I shoot cowboy with.

Apparently the new guy is carrying on with this procedure because his predecessor did it.

With Fogarty it was clear that he felt a responsibility and wanted to have a chat with prospective LTCH holders to see that there was nothing obvious about the person that would suggest against their receiving the permit. We can discuss the legal issues, etc., but I can understand his desire to do this. In his position I WOULDN'T do it but I understand it.

Don't worry about it. You won't have to prove a need for the LTCH. What the man wants to know before he signs the application is that you're not a raving lunatic. Just go in and be yourself.

 

[JohnN]

They had me come back for the interview but it never happened. No worries.

 

[bassplayrguy]

I'm sorry but this is a total waste of time. Does the chief not have anything to do with his time that would better serve the public he is sworn to protect? The applicant has proven he is ok by meeting the qualifications set forth by the state.

 

[Armed Eastsider]

Its baffling. People who spend the time and money to get a LTCH are NOT the ones out robbing and murdering people. And even if they were, they certainly arent going to go in and tell the police Chief all about it. What a waste of time and resources.

 

[kludge]

Instead of typing this all again...

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...7-ltch_interview_questions-3.html#post1669267

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...7-ltch_interview_questions-3.html#post1675161

 

[rjstew317]

I've have to go meet with him next Friday. they had to make a special appointment for me because I'm in clinicals all day on Thursdays, which is his usual day for theses meetings. at first i was a little peeved about it, but after reading some posts about the experience it seems not to be that big of a deal, unless of course he decides to try and deny me of my constitutional rights.

 

[Scutter01]

He can recommend "Deny" all he wants, but the decision is not his and the ISP will issue anyway unless he can clearly articulate a valid reason for his denial. Simply saying "I don't think he should have one" is insufficient.

 

[rjstew317]

He can recommend "Deny" all he wants, but the decision is not his and the ISP will issue anyway unless he can clearly articulate a valid reason for his denial. Simply saying "I don't think he should have one" is insufficient.

yeah, but i bet his "opinion" would have some weight and influence. at least give them a reason to delay. in my case, I'm not worried about that at all.

 

[Scutter01]

yeah, but i bet his "opinion" would have some weight and influence. at least give them a reason to delay. in my case, I'm not worried about that at all.

By law, it doesn't. He has to have a clear and articulable reason that you are not a "proper person". Indiana is a "shall-issue" state. That means that if he can't show a good and valid reason to deny you, then the state must grant. Yes, it may create a delay as the ISP will send the paperwork back to the Chief asking him to explain himself.

IC 35-47-2-3
Application for license to carry handgun; procedure

*snip*

(c) The officer to whom the application is made shall ascertain the applicant's name, full address, length of residence in the community, whether the applicant's residence is located within the limits of any city or town, the applicant's occupation, place of business or employment, criminal record, if any, and convictions (minor traffic offenses excepted), age, race, sex, nationality, date of birth, citizenship, height, weight, build, color of hair, color of eyes, scars and marks, whether the applicant has previously held an Indiana license to carry a handgun and, if so, the serial number of the license and year issued, whether the applicant's license has ever been suspended or revoked, and if so, the year and reason for the suspension or revocation, and the applicant's reason for desiring a license. The officer to whom the application is made shall conduct an investigation into the applicant's official records and verify thereby the applicant's character and reputation, and shall in addition verify for accuracy the information contained in the application, and shall forward this information together with the officer's recommendation for approval or disapproval and one (1) set of legible and classifiable fingerprints of the applicant to the superintendent.
(d) The superintendent may make whatever further investigation the superintendent deems necessary. Whenever disapproval is recommended, the officer to whom the application is made shall provide the superintendent and the applicant with the officer's complete and specific reasons, in writing, for the recommendation of disapproval.
(e) If it appears to the superintendent that the applicant:
(1) has a proper reason for carrying a handgun;
(2) is of good character and reputation;
(3) is a proper person to be licensed; and
(4) is:
(A) a citizen of the United States; or
(B) not a citizen of the United States but is allowed to carry a firearm in the United States under federal law;
the superintendent shall issue to the applicant a qualified or an unlimited license to carry any handgun lawfully possessed by the applicant. The original license shall be delivered to the licensee. A copy shall be delivered to the officer to whom the application for license was made. A copy shall be retained by the superintendent for at least four (4) years in the case of a four (4) year license. The superintendent may adopt guidelines to establish a records retention policy for a lifetime license. A four (4) year license shall be valid for a period of four (4) years from the date of issue. A lifetime license is valid for the life of the individual receiving the license.


*snip*

In other words, the Chief has to go by official records, not by what you look like or what you say to him. If there's nothing in your record to base a denial on, then he must approve or explain, in writing, why he's violating state law.

 

[SmileDocHill]

Like scutter01 said or alluded to the system is designed to prevent any subjective factors from being factored in (like the chief's opinion, or general feel about you).
If you look at the links provided by Kludge he, myself, and others have tried to describe what the actual process was like for us. You are normal to have an initial reaction of being defensive but practically it is not what you think it will be if that is what you are expecting. If we are to talk about the fundamental concept of the meeting requirement then I wouldn't sound like such a pushover but the meeting itself is nothing to be anxious about. (Yes, I know...easy to say in hind sight.)

 

[CarmelHP]

Pursuant to state law, the Chief of Police recommends approve or deny to the issuing authority, the Superintendent, Indiana State Police. No idea how he could say "No" if the application does not indicate a person in ineligible. Indiana is, indeed, a "Shall Issue" state, in the absence of a qualifying reason to deny an applicant, the license to carry a handgun SHALL be issued. Never heard of this before but good luck and I would be interested in his response to your question of "Why"?

Matters not a whit whether the Chief says yes or no, unless he lists a statutory reason for denial, the state police will issue it. Funny, the Chief didn't ask to meet with me. I'm disappointed I didn't get to fill his ear.

 

[zibby43]

The Chief is not going to ask "why" your friend wants to carry.

Most likely, he'll just simply ask if he is familiar with firearms. It is a pretty laid back and actually enjoyable experience. Tell him not to fret.

 

[gohard43]

I did it last year when Fogarty was still chief....called to set up the appointment, the first open date was a month later to talk with him. I was pissed. He is a nice guy, asked why I wanted it, if I had any experience with firearms, then we just talked about random things and police work! Tell you friend not to be nervous!!