Bullpup rifle

[mstr.litamacwolf]

I'm thinking about adding a bullpup to my family of rifles but the only bullpup I know is the IWI Tavor. I've never shot a bullpup so I'm looking for some advice on bullpups from anyone that have or has shot any bullpup rifle.

 

[Que]

Check out the various videos from the YouTube channel Military Arms Channel (MAC). Tim has done a number of extensive reviews on bullpups that may interest you. You can find his Tavor review here.

 

[singlesix]

Bullpup Kit

Shernic Gun Works

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I had a Steyr AUG, but traded it off for some FNCs before the madness started in '89. I did not like it. Reaching under your arm to load (I like having it out in front of me), the loss of left side, the muzzle and sound being on top of you, inter alia.

Bullpups on US market, other than the new hotness (the Tavor):

FAMAS, G1, Le Clarion (very rare in the States, grand total of 100 imported)

Steyr AUG/Microtech clone

FN2000

Keltec RFB

Walther G22

Note that both the AR-15 and M-14 platforms have been configured into bullpup designs.

I'll ask, why do you want a bullpup platform? Do you have prior experience with one?

 

[Tranquil]

From experience, they are very awkward guns. But that's just my personal opinion. If I bought one, it would be an AR variant.

 

[cedartop]

Kirk mentioned the only 3 worth looking at. Tavor, AUG, and FN FS2000. Being a lefty I prefer the FN due its forward ejection. Be prepared to spend a little money, they aren't cheap.

 

[aaron580]

I settled on the tavor for the shear fact that its fully ambi and standard AR mags. It also feels a whole lot better to be than the AUG and the FS2000. The AUG is nice as well as the FN, but the tavor is just more practical from what I have experienced.

 

[other dave]

Bushnaster M17S if/when you can find one.

 

[nra4ever]

I have a ps90, styer Aug NATO version, msar, tavor and tavor with factory mepro.

I have never shot the ps90 ammo just too limited. Styer aug NATO and msar are both the same and a joy to shoot. The tavor is also lots of fun and a joy to shoot.

I think i like the tavor with mepro site the best.

I still need the fs2000 to complete my collection. I had a chance to buy the bushmaster m17 but it seemed out dated unbalanced and heavy. The new aug and tavor both use standard mags

 

[SILVERBACK]

Simple Yugo sks 17'' barrel in SGWORKS bullpup.

 

[SpaldingPM]

I had an RFB. Lasted about 2 months and 3 shooting trips. Something about the 308 EXPLODINGGG inches from your face is pretty unpleasant. The first time, I was in awe of how ridiculously loud it was and how amazing the blast felt, but it got old fast. Especially when you're trying to make precision shots... if you break the trigger correctly, it should "surprise" you... and the RFB did more than surprise...
I'm a traditional "assault" rifle fan. Yes I hate the word "assault."

My 16" mosin however... that is the most fun a gun lover can have.

 

[Tombs]

I started my venture into bullpups with an MSAR.

It was a nice fairly trim and light weight carbine. Very fast to pop the barrel out, easy to maintain. Trigger worked for me exceptionally well, but the method of barrel attachment seems to open up groups a little if you aren't careful about loading the foregrip the same every shot. I never found reloads that awkward, and I prefer the ergos of the platform.

Finally when the Tavor came around I managed to get one, I set it up to my preferences and it suits me better. Accuracy was much better from the tavor than the MSAR, but I blame that on the design more than anything else. The trigger is much heavier in the tavor, but the break is a little more conducive to accuracy than the MSAR's glock like break. The tavor took a bit to get used to reloads with, since I was used to the AUG manner of reloads, so I was hitting the bolt release at times instead of the magazine release. After I got used to the tavor's method of reloading, I discovered there's many more potential ways of doing it and it could be done much faster. You can drop the mag with your firing hand by moving it backwards. The tavor isn't nearly as trim or as light of a rifle, it's fairly heavy and bulky.

Internally the guns are about as different as is possible. I won't go into this because there's probably some strong preferences for people in this realm. I prefer the tavor's design.
I do have a picture of the tavor outside of the stock:

Tavor disassembled:

AUG disassembled:


The ergos of the two are entirely different animals as well. The tavor feels much more stable and comfortable for me, but the aug is faster handling.
Both have been 100% reliable. The first 2 magazines through the MSAR failed to lock the bolt back on the last round with the gas set on the normal position. After those 60 rounds it has never failed to lock the bolt back on the last round. The tavor did not require any breaking in like that, it ran flawlessly out of box. I have never ran steel cased ammo in either of them FWIW.

I can't personally go back to conventional rifles without feeling like I'm crunched up. Bullpups feel more natural to me since I'm getting a much longer length of pull but keeping that balance point within that length of pull. I can understand though that firing from some awkward positions might be a little harder with a bullpup than a conventional rifle, but there's always ways of working around things.

When taking the triggers into consideration, remember what is necessary to shoot accurately. Some soft or mushy takeup isn't going to affect your accuracy. As long as the break is free of creep and is crisp, I don't understand what gripe people have. Both of these rifles' triggers break cleanly and have little to no over travel. The initial takeup in the trigger is pulling the slack out of the linkage and is nearly weightless, the reset is short on both and is strong.

The FS2000 has always been an interesting rifle, but it has too many quirks for me. I don't care for the construction of it, nor the sealed operating system. I would like it if it was less than half its current price, but you can buy a SCAR for as much as that thing, and the SCAR isn't solely held together by small screws.
I'm not sure how honest the Steyrs are that you can buy today. The last ones I saw around used US made non-lined barrels with a 1/9 twist. The MSAR uses a chrome lined 1/8 twist barrel. The tavor uses an israeli made chrome lined 1/7 twist barrel.




Oh yes, one last note with the AUG design that I would think most people would become annoyed by in short order. They do spit gas on your forward hand, between the barrel attachment and receiver. At times it can be uncomfortable, at other times it can be downright painful. It depends on the ammo you're using, your gas setting, and how clean/dirty the rifle is. I lol'd when Tim got a hole in his gloves, I don't think mine bleeds off quite that bad.

 

[shootamc58]

just bought an IMI tavor and love it for what it is worth. Feels great in my hand and the build quality is excellent.

 

[Bearclaw]

I love my SKS SGworks bullpup. and I love the price that it took to build it and that it is 762.

 

[Sausagecake]

Well I was going to start another thread asking about whether or not the tavor is worth it, but now I am convinced. My next gun will be a tavor. I know I could get 3 AKs for the price of one tavor, but I cant shoot 3 AKs at once....yet. Now the question is, what optics should I get for it?

 

[nra4ever]

Get the tavor IDF it comes factory with optic.

 

[Excalibur]

The Tavor seems to be the new hotness that's out. From all the reviews, it seems to be a good choice for the money

 

[Tombs]

Well I was going to start another thread asking about whether or not the tavor is worth it, but now I am convinced. My next gun will be a tavor. I know I could get 3 AKs for the price of one tavor, but I cant shoot 3 AKs at once....yet. Now the question is, what optics should I get for it?

If you want magnification, Acog, Browe, Elcan OS4x... Take your pick. All equally priced and serve the same purpose.

If you prefer a red dot, either an eotech XPS2 or aimpoint T1 would do well. If you are going to put a magnifier behind one, you should forgo the mess and select from the above.

If you're on a very tight budget, eotech 517 or aimpoint pro.

Sure, there's cheaper stuff, but if you're willing to buy 1 gun over 3 then why would you cheap out on the most important part of your firearm.

There's also the tavor IDF model, it will be much cheaper to go that route after everything is said and done. The mepro M21 is a solid sight, but like all tritium/fiber powered red dots, it can take a bit to get used to how much dimmer they are on average if you're used to cranking a red dot as bright as possible. The BUIS of the IDF model are entirely different, I have no experience with them.
If you're wondering what the reticle is on the model that comes with the tavor IDF:


It took me a few months to finally settle on a TA31F.(That's a lot of paychecks for me) No batteries, buttons, or switches, pick the rifle up and go. The eye relief and eyebox don't work the same as on a conventional scope, so it feels a bit more like a red dot in actual use. It works out comfortably either indoors or out to any range the rifle is capable of. One note, the mounting height feels on the low side with the tavor so you will have a very tight cheek weld, but that does make for a very repeatable cheek weld. For reference, it's the exact same centerline height of the built in BUIS. Before I bought optics for it I had a leupold VXR 2-7 as a temporary option, but a conventional scope is really bulky on the rifle, I'd recommend against doing that.

Another very very important note. You can not use a mount on the tavor that does not have a full width recoil lug. Larue mounts can not be used on the tavor without damaging the mount or the rail for this reason.
Here's the result of that:

Standard AR15 mounting heights will be very low on the tavor, era on the side of caution and go a bit taller than you would with an ar15.
Since information is still hard to come by regarding experiences with stuff like this on the tavor, I'd rather be wordy and get out there what I've discovered so far.