I side with HTA's owner on this one. The OP came off as a "I'm asking a very specific question and I am looking for a certain answer, and if you don't give me the exact answer I'm looking for then you're wrong and I hate you" type of person. Though I don't think HTA's owner responded harshly/sarcastically in the slightest, I could definitely see why he'd want to. You get a guy that is actually in the industry in here in your thread taking the time to answer your questions and you treat him like garbage and tell him he should STFU. No wonder INGO doesn't have more industry reps in here, people like you run them off.
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Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
Building a suppressor for personal use
- Thread starter SameOl'Sh!z
- Start date
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SameOl'Sh!z
Plinker
I don't recall telling him to STFU.. I told him thank you for the response but I was asking the forum for advice. If I wanted to call the ATF then I wouldn't post here. I posted in the correct thread and yes I was expecting an answer other than "call the ATF". I was not being rude and again I'm sorry if I came off that way. However, I will not walk on pins and needles either. If I think the response is unsatisfactory or unnecessary (like yours) then I will express my thoughts. I thank (most) everyone for their input. I will make sure to confirm all information with the ATF before I start. I just wanted to get a basic idea of what needs to be asked.
I am a class 2 manufacturer and have been building NFA stuff for a good long time. I've been around it and the people who made and sold it since the 70's. I guess that means I'm an old guy.....
here is the basic answer to your initial question. If you want more detail ask or send a pm.
You can legally build your own suppressor. As others noted you'll have to fill out a form 5320.1 also known as a form 1 in duplicate. You will need to get a signoff from your police chief or county sheriff. You need to pay a tax of $200 for each item you wish to build. You also need a citizenship certification form signed by you and pair of fingerprint cards in with the form 1. All this stuff goes off to the NFA Branch of BATFE in Martinsburg west virginia. After about 8-9 months they should approve it if you don't have anything bad in your FBI file and you've filled out the paperwork right. Once approved you can build the item you want. As noted this is not a license and you can only build what you paid the tax on. As an individual you cannot legally have spare parts like baffles or endcaps. What you're calling a cartridge I'm assuming would be a baffle stack and isn't allowed. The tube is the part serial numbered and you will be required to engrave a model, cal, serial number, makers name, city and state on the tube. There are regs detailing the marking requirements. If you want to have swappable baffle stacks or "cartridges as you called them you'll have to become a manufacturer and pay the SOT. As an individual there is no real way to do that.
I hope that answers the questions you asked and in my opinion the first reply was uncalled for and incorrect. On the other hand its the internet and we all end up putting up with dumb replies to get useful info. There are a lot of reasons to want to build your own suppressors and a lot of applications aren't covered by the current manufacturers. I build specialty suppressors for oddball stuff that isn't large volume enough for Gemtech, AAC and the rest. Do the forms, wait for approval and build something you can really call your own. Its worth the time, effort and money if it makes you happy.
Frank
My only follow-up question to the OP's question about baffles is, while you can't have spare baffles lying around, I curious as to the legalities of destroying one set of baffles and building another of a different design, so long as they fit into the same tube and are the same caliber?
What's not legal to do?
Yes, but you can design your own suppressor, submit your design with your form 1, then once it is approved, build the suppressor you designed.
I didn't know there was so much false info out there, even in the Class 3 community about this. Seems that many people think it is completely illegal to build your own suppressor.
Another question: Where is the regulation that states that you have to submit a design with your Form 1? I'm not arguing, just curious.
Another question: Where is the regulation that states that you have to submit a design with your Form 1? I'm not arguing, just curious.
Line 4A on a form 1says that if you are building a prototype, furnish plans and specifications. I take that to mean, send in a drawing of what/how I am building a suppresor. I have not done this, nor do I know someone who has. I plan to some day, and when I do, I will send in a drawing of what I plan to build.
From what I've read, you need a length, caliber, and serial number. Also, you can make it shorter than you specify, just not any longer.
There are form 1 suppressors made with consumable cores, leather, felt, steel washers, screen wire, and whatever else you can think of. Those consumables are replaceable from what I've read.
There are form 1 suppressors made with consumable cores, leather, felt, steel washers, screen wire, and whatever else you can think of. Those consumables are replaceable from what I've read.
According to BATF letters and FFL flyers you can legally replace wipes as they are not considered to be suppressor "parts" subject to restrictions. Baffles and tubes on the other hand are controlled for those who do not have an FFL and pay the SOT to manufacture. As for drawings you do not need to submit anything with your form 1 for approval. ATF never sees the can or its designs and for the most part couldn't care less. The one "but" in there is the length. They have stated in an FFL newsletter or two that extending the can by any amount is not acceptable and repairs the shorten the can by more than 20% are also unacceptable. Written clear regulations which actually tell you what you can and cannot do don't really exist so you are forced to go to the letters and newsletters in order to find out what the "current feeling" of the lawyer in charge is. In reality you can do anything you want if you don't get caught but beware getting caught. Its not worth the trouble in my book.
Frank
Frank
Frank, thanks for the reply. Its good to know that we don't need to supply any more info. Do you know why they add the part on line 4A about supplying info for protoypes?
It probably has something to do with manufacturers who are looking at making stuff for the govt. Prototypes won't be govt property and therefore need to be registered where govt property....as in weapons for the military don't. My guess is that they are asking for info for that. Its hard to tell what the real reason is. These forms frequently have carry over info from forms that were used previously. Forms that have been around since the 30's and 40's. Things have changed in real life but in the life of a bureaucrats world change is evil and cannot be done. In any case its just my guess based on experience. I've filed a lot of form 2's to register stuff and a few form 1's for my own personal stuff and never had to give them any info related to design. They ask for barrel length, overall length and cal and thats about all they want.
Hope that helps
Frank
Hope that helps
Frank
If manufacturers can get away with serializing the muzzle end cap and have the body + bafflers screw onto that AND be replacable in case of a strike, why can't we do the same???
Example: New Guardian 22 Suppressor - YouTube
Example: New Guardian 22 Suppressor - YouTube
SemperFiUSMC
Master
- Jun 23, 2009
- 3,480
- 38
I think (don't quote me) it has to do with firearms that go bang. ATF like to see designs to ensure that semi auto weapons can not be easily converted to machine guns.
You bought a ticket to the show (Form 1).
We have backstage passes (SOT).
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Thats a really good question and I can't give you a definitive answer since I'm not tech branch. What I can tell you is that the reg requires the tube to be serialized and unless you get specific approval from the administrator thats about it. Maybe they got a waiver or variance to do it the way they did and maybe not. One thing that most normal folks either don't know or forget is that ATF doesn't see any of this stuff. If I built miniguns and called them suppressors the paperwork would go through just like it would if I had done things properly. Since NFA never sees the hardware it doesn't get caught til someone asks a question. Are they legal or not????? Ask them and if they have a variance maybe they'll say so....maybe not.
I do know of a few cases where guys asked if they could serialize endcaps or baffles and the answer they got back was that if the endcaps were permanently attached to the tube then the serial number could be placed on the endcap. If the endcaps were removable the serial had to be on the tube though it was and is perfectly legal to place the serial number in other places if its on the tube too. That was the answer received about numbering baffles. Tech said that there were no prohibitions against putting serial numbers on baffles but that a baffle couldn't be transferred to an individual as a suppressor, it had to be in a tube or other "container"? which could be numbered. Now there are some suppressors out there where the baffles are screwed together to make a suppressor and there are no endcaps and no tube. I'm not sure how they handle that one.....I've not made any of those nor have I asked tech what rules would apply.
One last little tidbit here. Just because someone is doing something and they seem to be getting away with it, doesn't mean its legal. I have no interest in watching a youtube video just to find out what they're doing but if you think something isn't right then ask the guys doing it. They may have an answer that makes perfect sense and you may be misinterpreting whats going on. On the other hand you may be right and maybe they're idiots......
For Semper Fi
"I think (don't quote me) it has to do with firearms that go bang. ATF like to see designs to ensure that semi auto weapons can not be easily converted to machine guns."
Since we're talking about NFA Forms here this really wouldn't apply.....you don't need to file a form to get a determination on a semi auto.
I don't think this has anything to do with it. I've been involved in a number of semi auto firearms being sent into tech for determinations on whether they could be classified as MG's or not. None of them required a form 1, drawings or a request of any sort prior to making them. ATF loves to see the finished product so that they can do some real world testing. They don't like drawings though they may give you a qualified approval from them. In a couple cases I know of where an individual sent in a firearm that tech branch decided were MG's they told the individual that the firearms couldn't be sent back. For those of us with FFL and SOT to manufacture they simply said to send in a form 2 to register and they'd return the MG. I've never seen them actually ask for any drawings for any reason but I'm not Colt or Remington either.....maybe they do it occasionally.
Frank
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