Build private shooting camp?

[HavokCycle]

I'll volunteer to operate any of your dozer/excavator equipment. You'll prolly gonna need to move a lot of dirt.

this yeah. dont underestimate the size of the dirt berm youll need. the concern really, isnt the people who hit the target, or come anywhere close. visit any public range,indoor or out, pistol only or rifle, whatever. youll see pockmarks in the wall, the ceiling, the floor, pretty much every surface.

 

[zippy23]

"If you build it, they will come", that quote seems perfect for this thread. Screw the EPA, screw the haters, if you want to do it, put your heart into and you will get ALL THE SUPPORT YOU NEED FROM US. Dont force a membership as some places do.

 

[disGRUNTld]

I would travel a bit to shoot somewhere like that!

 

[rhino]

Real bathrooms are a huge plus for a lot of shooters and potential shooters. If you choose to go the porta-outhouse route, go with the handicapped size.

 

[Lunati]

I also agree making this an LLC so you are not personally liable (IE. take your personal assets away). Also make sure you have lots of insurance...

 

[Bishop]

I don't live very far from where you are talking about and I would be very interested in something like this. It would be nice to bring the family and make a day of it.

 

[waltherppk]

Agree, would be fun...tent camping would be cool.

 

[BE Mike]

If you decide to do this, I would consult with the NRA. They have expert advice and manuals to help you build a range. High powered rifle bullets can travel a great distance with someone elevates the muzzle and shoots over the berm (it will happen). The bullet can still have enough energy to penetrate glass, etc.

 

[achilles]

I spent 6 months building a business plan and structuring funding for a very similar project in Colorado. It has not been opened yet but I can give you some thoughts we had to address:

1. Consider whether you want to do this for profit or not-for-profit. In a for profit model, a paid membership structure may be attractive. By making it a membership only model (as opposed to "open to the public") you can bypass a number of state and local business /zoning / statutory requirements that you will have to tangle with (State and Federal EPA guidelines, OSHA, etc.). As an alternative, consider a not-for-profit model where you donate the land to a 501(c)(3) entity and were the "membership" is by donation. At first blush, most people don't recognize the benefits of use a not-for-profit model. Or, you can do what we did in Colorado and use a hybrid which utiized a for profit and not-for-profit structure.

2. Regardless of structure, we found the business plan only worked if we took in members / donation / funding prior to opening in order to finance site improvements. We found that bootstrapping it was going to be too difficult so I decided to treat it like any other business I have started and funded and just do properly.

3. Prior to announcing, there had be a war plan in place to address the environmental impact (primarily the risk of led run off), sound issues, etc.

3. Take the recommended height of any burm, and double it.

4. Consider providing rentals for full auto's / other NFA toys. This requires more structural info and did add to the costs but it penciled out to be well worth it for the CO project. It is planned to be phased in by the 3rd quarter of the ranges operation.

5. Make it family friendly and provide reasonable amenities i.e. restroom facilities, etc.

6. Insurance will be required as will local business licenses. I can provide references on the insurance front.

Lot's of other ideas I can give you but these were some of the basic ones we confronted early on. I have thought about doing a similar project here in IN but have been too busy to pay attention to it so I am glad to see INGO'r may get it going

I would be happy to donate some time to helping with the business structure and providing some input into how to finance the set up if you want.

 

[Grizhicks]

I'd be interested, esp. if you had 300yd+ stuff.

Cost? Not sure about a per-day fee. Maybe $20 or so. I'd rather pay $150 a year or something to be able to go out and shoot whever I had a free afternoon.

In terms of legal structure, I have no idea how you'd want to do it but this guy: proteq.us could probably help you out. His range is basically in his back yard and is definately no frills but it's cheap and doesn't have range officers constantly on duty that you would need to pay. He runs a tax service or something out of his house. So if you're serious, maybe call him up and ask him to help you do the legal structure for a shooting club on your property. At least that way you're exchanging his time for a small fee.

However he's got it setup is what I'd be most interested in seeing: A place that is self-policing and member maintained. I'd be happy to shovel dirt for backstops, dig post holes or buy some lumber in order to have a place I can go plink without needing to lay out cash by the hour to pay for range officers, target boards and profit margin.

The pro-teq guy may have some requirement for knowledge demonstration before joining that you may want to mimick. I kind of knew the guy from my Rose-Hulman student days, took a few of his classes and have always paid his yearly fee even if I never went out there. So I may have been grandfathered into membership there without knowing it. Regardless, it's a nice situation: show up, sign in, shoot, clean up afteryourself, shoot the **** with anyone else there, then leave when you feel like it.

In terms of ammenities, I wouldn't care for anything other than a porta-john and maybe a pavilion to keep gear dry if it's raining. A gravel road would be nice so I could drive a car out there instead of needing a 4x4.

One problem I see, you (being in Parke County) and ProTEQ (proteq.us) being just north of Brazil, you guys would really be competitors. Yes, his range is tied up with a lot of events, it is a nice place to shoot and is only $20/year. Just something to think about. -- Greg

 

[RustyHornet]

I would deffinately make the trip to shoot! Sounds like it would make a fun weekend trip!

 

[goneshooting]

Make it MG friendly and I will be there with friends . You would be surprised what kind of crowd you can draw with them.If you need help just ask.

 

[hornadylnl]

The problem you're going to have is competing with "free" or subsidized ranges.

 

[tenniskid004]

Insurance would be aweful...that's why there aren't more. And insurance is a must, one small accident could ruin you --> litigation/lawsuit

BUT, if you do it, I'll be there camping all the time!

 

[grahamsy2k]

I would absolutely love this!! Just as long as you didn't let in the gangsters and idiots.

And the Cabin Idea is Awesome.

My Girlfriends dad also owns land in Parke county, right above Raccoon lake and has a cabin on it. I honestly go up there to shoot and go on adventures every chance I get. I love it.

But seriously, if this happens let me know.

 

[achilles]

If I recall right, our initial insurance quotes were about $2,500 per month all in and by dealing with the membership vs paying customer vs donation structure, I believe the rates came down to under $1000 per month for a $1,000,000 umbrella policy. I will pull the client files tomorrow and see if I have copies of the final quotes in there.

 

[achilles]

Regarding litigation risks, the way I dealt with it was to put the property in one entity, all other hard assets in a second entity and then have them lease the assets to a third entity which then contracted with a forth entity to provide turnkey operation of the range. If the range were to get sued, there are no assets to go after unless someone were to successfully argue that all other entities should be pulled into the litigation. Worst case, you make it VERY expensive for someone to litigate, best case the assets are protected. This is why we introduced a not-for-profit trust into the structure.

 

[hornadylnl]

If I recall right, our initial insurance quotes were about $2,500 per month all in and by dealing with the membership vs paying customer vs donation structure, I believe the rates came down to under $1000 per month for a $1,000,000 umbrella policy. I will pull the client files tomorrow and see if I have copies of the final quotes in there.

Regarding litigation risks, the way I dealt with it was to put the property in one entity, all other hard assets in a second entity and then have them lease the assets to a third entity which then contracted with a forth entity to provide turnkey operation of the range. If the range were to get sued, there are no assets to go after unless someone were to successfully argue that all other entities should be pulled into the litigation. Worst case, you make it VERY expensive for someone to litigate, best case the assets are protected. This is why we introduced a not-for-profit trust into the structure.

The problem is many shooters and hunters don't want want to pay for the above. Why would they when they can get government to do it?

 

[achilles]

Sorry Horn, don't understand what you mean?

 

[hornadylnl]

Sorry Horn, don't understand what you mean?

There are hunters who think they're entitled to hunt. They complain private property owners won't let them hunt or charge lease fees. They think public hunting lands are a public good and a right. Same with public shooting ranges. I posted a thread recently regarding public ranges and I was in the minority in believing that the government should not be providing public ranges. I think you'll find that many shooters aren't going to want to pay yearly membership fees or hourly fees when they can get the government to make everyone pay for it.