Bravery or Stupidity on the West Side?

[churchmouse]

With out the knowledge you mention and I am sure an intensity level that would make ones ears ring it is really hard to say what we would actually see and recognize.
-3 bad guys....check
-guns drawn and pointed at employees, possibly customers...Check
-have they seen me yet, no......check
-What to do........

I was not there. I can only surmise from my personal experiences what I would have done and no.....never faced down a robber X 3. The robbery thing is new.

 

[churchmouse]

In all three btl!

Just 2 now but nice effort...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Got some links to good study on these areas?

I don't. I touch on several in the class I teach with Coach. Dr. Steven Rhoads has an excellent lecture that goes much more indepth, although he only teaches to criminal justice and education clients. I think pretty highly of his programs if you can get in one. The Combat Hunter program, relevant portions of which are discussed in "Left of Bang" is a great source as well. I *think* Surviving Street Patrol may have touched on it as well, but I've read so many books on the subject at this point they start to run together.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Got some links to good study on these areas?

Read Gavin de Becker's "The Gift of Fear." Its not specific to gunfights or robberies, but it talks about pre-attack indicators.

 

[foszoe]

Read Gavin de Becker's "The Gift of Fear." Its not specific to gunfights or robberies, but it talks about pre-attack indicators.

I can second that, I read it on recommendations from the forum.

 

[SmileDocHill]

To use it as a thought exercise, not trying to say these thoughts are better or advised. What are your thoughts on these options for the camp that doesn't go in.
Obviously call 911,
get a pic of or write down license #.
If the situation allows it (their car is out of their site while they are inside or it is a truck with a bed) could you throw a phone in it to allow the cops to track them and find them later (poor mans gps tracker)? Lot of issues with this, I know, but has it been done?
If you are in an area where you can anticipate a quick response time what are the pro's and cons regarding knifing the tires of their get away car so it slows their get away down more?

 

[yepthatsme]

I don't. I touch on several in the class I teach with Coach. Dr. Steven Rhoads has an excellent lecture that goes much more indepth, although he only teaches to criminal justice and education clients. I think pretty highly of his programs if you can get in one. The Combat Hunter program, relevant portions of which are discussed in "Left of Bang" is a great source as well. I *think* Surviving Street Patrol may have touched on it as well, but I've read so many books on the subject at this point they start to run together.

You wouldn't happen to be able to remember some of the titles of those books? I think it would be an interesting read for some of us.

 

[bwframe]

Read Gavin de Becker's "The Gift of Fear." Its not specific to gunfights or robberies, but it talks about pre-attack indicators.

Thank you sir! I put it on my list.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You wouldn't happen to be able to remember some of the titles of those books? I think it would be an interesting read for some of us.

Gift of Fear is one. Many are textbooks from interview schools. Will check bookcase when home for titles.

 

[Coach]

It is difficult to Monday morning QB without the facts. I do not question the decision to re-enter. I do not know if it was right or wrong. This guy did it and no innocent people were harmed. The game plan of the criminals did not go the way it was drawn up. I am dismayed by the lack of marksmanship of the firearms instructor. There may be very good reasons for the lack of hits or just maybe he did get hits. I was not there and I do not know what he was shooting at or what the plan was. I am also not surprised that a firearms instructor cannot hit anything. There are people so labeled that cannot shoot worth a damn and have no business teaching others.

There is a sometimes huge lag time between the 911 call and help arriving on the scene. During that time it is possible and maybe evening likely that action will have to be taken. For all of those being good witnesses, that may be a proper course of action some times. There may be other times that it may not be a proper course of action. You are going to have to trust your training, reading of the situation and the people involved, and be prepared to do what is necessary. Do you have the skills to take action and help the situation.

I am somewhat troubled by the "I have people that count on me" philosophy. As pointed out upstream most everyone does. The only thing necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Most everyone being called on to come help will have people that depend on them. The soldiers and sailors we send into harms way have people that depend on them, including us. If evil comes calling and we can intervene it seems like we should, Indiana Code allows it for a reason. It is an American tradition and expectation that able bodied men protect and defend the society from threats. That is why the Second Amendment was put in place to provide the ability to do it. Particularly if we are skilled, knowledgeable and practiced we should do what we can do.

 

[yepthatsme]

Gift of Fear is one. Many are textbooks from interview schools. Will check bookcase when home for titles.

Thanks BBI. I have already added "Gift Of Fear" and "Left Of Bang" to my list.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Gift of Fear is one. Many are textbooks from interview schools. Will check bookcase when home for titles.

Gift of Fear, as long as you ignore what he says about guns as he's a moron in that arena.
Surviving Street Patrol, but only very basic info in a few chapters
Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, not so much for body language but a good look at how people attempt to manipulate and/or deceive you, and what to look for (as useful for car shopping as avoiding criminals)

Preattack Indicators is good information, but remember Marc's background as a bouncer and his take on things makes more sense. While not particularly useful for random violence or serious criminals, it's good advise for "familiar" (ie family/friend arguments turning violent) or "participatory" (urinating contest escalating as two drunks play "Screw me? No screw YOU! games until violence occurs). It's a nice supplement to Gift of Fear, particularly if paired with The Dark Side of Man.

So, if I were just starting out I'd read Marc's link above, Gift of Fear, and Influence.

 

[foszoe]

Gift of Fear, as long as you ignore what he says about guns as he's a moron in that arena.
Surviving Street Patrol, but only very basic info in a few chapters
Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, not so much for body language but a good look at how people attempt to manipulate and/or deceive you, and what to look for (as useful for car shopping as avoiding criminals)

Preattack Indicators is good information, but remember Marc's background as a bouncer and his take on things makes more sense. While not particularly useful for random violence or serious criminals, it's good advise for "familiar" (ie family/friend arguments turning violent) or "participatory" (urinating contest escalating as two drunks play "Screw me? No screw YOU! games until violence occurs". It's a nice supplement to Gift of Fear, particularly if paired with The Dark Side of Man.

So, if I were just starting out I'd read Marc's link above, Gift of Fear, and Influence.

I can not recommend Influence enough. That is a seminal work and I have bought copies for other people.

 

[yepthatsme]

Gift of Fear, as long as you ignore what he says about guns as he's a moron in that arena.
Surviving Street Patrol, but only very basic info in a few chapters
Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, not so much for body language but a good look at how people attempt to manipulate and/or deceive you, and what to look for (as useful for car shopping as avoiding criminals)

Preattack Indicators is good information, but remember Marc's background as a bouncer and his take on things makes more sense. While not particularly useful for random violence or serious criminals, it's good advise for "familiar" (ie family/friend arguments turning violent) or "participatory" (urinating contest escalating as two drunks play "Screw me? No screw YOU! games until violence occurs). It's a nice supplement to Gift of Fear, particularly if paired with The Dark Side of Man.

So, if I were just starting out I'd read Marc's link above, Gift of Fear, and Influence.

Thanks BBI! I really appreciate you taking the time to post the information.

 

[churchmouse]

It is difficult to Monday morning QB without the facts. I do not question the decision to re-enter. I do not know if it was right or wrong. This guy did it and no innocent people were harmed. The game plan of the criminals did not go the way it was drawn up. I am dismayed by the lack of marksmanship of the firearms instructor. There may be very good reasons for the lack of hits or just maybe he did get hits. I was not there and I do not know what he was shooting at or what the plan was. I am also not surprised that a firearms instructor cannot hit anything. There are people so labeled that cannot shoot worth a damn and have no business teaching others.

There is a sometimes huge lag time between the 911 call and help arriving on the scene. During that time it is possible and maybe evening likely that action will have to be taken. For all of those being good witnesses, that may be a proper course of action some times. There may be other times that it may not be a proper course of action. You are going to have to trust your training, reading of the situation and the people involved, and be prepared to do what is necessary. Do you have the skills to take action and help the situation.

I am somewhat troubled by the "I have people that count on me" philosophy. As pointed out upstream most everyone does. The only thing necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Most everyone being called on to come help will have people that depend on them. The soldiers and sailors we send into harms way have people that depend on them, including us. If evil comes calling and we can intervene it seems like we should, Indiana Code allows it for a reason. It is an American tradition and expectation that able bodied men protect and defend the society from threats. That is why the Second Amendment was put in place to provide the ability to do it. Particularly if we are skilled, knowledgeable and practiced we should do what we can do.

+10........