Bobcat Season?

[phylodog]

Its relevant because bobcats aren't really an issue in Indiana. They don't need to be managed, especially by idiots in the Indiana legislature that forced the INDNR to do something because their constituents are panicking about seeing bobcats on their trail cameras. And then trying to correlate it into why they haven't seen enough turkeys and deer for their liking...

Best to wait until well after they are, as is typically our tradition here in good ol' Indiana. You may be surprised to learn that your personal assessment of the wildlife on your property doesn't quite represent the state's even if it were anywhere close to scientific.

I haven't seen anyone panicking.

 

[phylodog]

But now otters are a problem, no? At least that's what I've seen on INGO from people that have seen their ponds' fish populations wiped out by them.

At one time otters were responsible for far and away more wildlife complaints than any other animal in Indiana (relayed to me via a high ranking CO at the time). Some fought like hell to prevent a trapping season, all of the typical emotions rolled out but sound management practices prevailed and the problem subsided.

 

[phylodog]

I think it's awesome we have them back in Indiana. We caught one in a trap probably 10 years ago in Fountain County, in an area the locals had never seen one before. Filmed one walk around part of our food plot in Tippecanoe county the following year.

We started getting pics of cats on the farm in Owen County three years ago now. My hunting partner saw one once running across one of our clover patches with a baby raccoon in it's mouth, the coon's mother in hot pursuit. We've got a big tom that seems to use our place as part of his range. We'll get consistent pics of him for a week then won't see him again for three or four.

I have no desire to shoot one at this point and wouldn't yet even if they opened a season tomorrow. If we begin seeing a noticeable decline in the wildlife coupled with more cats then that may change. As for now, coyotes are the only thing I'll shoot on sight without hesitation or remorse but even then, I don't shoot them Mar-July unless they're after the chickens.

 

[Purdue1991]

Best to wait until well after they are, as is typically our tradition here in good ol' Indiana. You may be surprised to learn that your personal assessment of the wildlife on your property doesn't quite represent the state's even if it were anywhere close to scientific.

I haven't seen anyone panicking.

Wild turkey harvest numbers are up significantly the past 5 years. But yeah, go ahead and discount what I'm saying...

Wild Turkey Spring Harvest Data

The latest hunting statistics for the wild turkey season

www.in.gov

 

[manifest destiny]

I have no desire to shoot one at this point and wouldn't yet even if they opened a season tomorrow. If we begin seeing a noticeable decline in the wildlife coupled with more cats then that may change. As for now, coyotes are the only thing I'll shoot on sight without hesitation or remorse but even then, I don't shoot them Mar-July unless they're after the chickens.

Ditto.

I'm rather sure southern IN has more cats than the north. Indiana is the tale of two states, as it relates to habitat, terrain and hunting.

 

[phylodog]

Wild turkey harvest numbers are up significantly the past 5 years. But yeah, go ahead and discount what I'm saying...

If you’re saying bobcats don’t need to be managed because turkey harvest numbers are up you can be absolutely certain that I am discounting what you are saying.

 

[Purdue1991]

If you’re saying bobcats don’t need to be managed because turkey harvest numbers are up you can be absolutely certain that I am discounting what you are saying.

I'm saying bobcats don't need to be managed because they're part of the ecosystem, have been for centuries, and they're doing no considerable damage to other wildlife numbers, including wild turkeys. The only thing that needs to be managed are humans, who do more to impact wildlife than any other species.

But please do tell. Why do bobcats need to be managed in Indiana? Please supply some data and facts to support your claim.

 

[phylodog]

But please do tell. Why do bobcats need to be managed in Indiana? Please supply some data and facts to support your claim.

You’re correct. They don’t need to be managed by the government, they’re part of the ecosystem just like we are so without management property owners get to kill as many as they wish.

They weren’t managed once before and they vanished. I guess that was better.

 

[Purdue1991]

You’re correct. They don’t need to be managed by the government, they’re part of the ecosystem just like we are so without management property owners get to kill as many as they wish.

They weren’t managed once before and they vanished. I guess that was better.

I see you're selectively quoting from my post, which also said:
"The only thing that needs to be managed are humans, who do more to impact wildlife than any other species."

My argument is that the number of bobcats don't need to be managed down. We don't need a hunting season. We don't need a trapping season. We don't need a member of the Indiana legislature bypassing the INDNR because their constituents feel that bobcats are reducing deer and turkey numbers. What we need is to allow wildlife biologists to make that call with data and facts. And up to this point, they didn't feel it was necessary to do anything.

 

[phylodog]

I see you're selectively quoting from my post, which also said:
"The only thing that needs to be managed are humans, who do more to impact wildlife than any other species."

My argument is that the number of bobcats don't need to be managed down. We don't need a hunting season. We don't need a trapping season. We don't need a member of the Indiana legislature bypassing the INDNR because their constituents feel that bobcats are reducing deer and turkey numbers. What we need is to allow wildlife biologists to make that call with data and facts. And up to this point, they didn't feel it was necessary to do anything.

So you believe that since they aren’t a problem now (in your opinion) they should be protected until after they become a problem.

Using data and experience from other states, which have managed their wildlife without eradicating this species, to prevent that from happening again is a problem?

 

[AndreusMaximus]

So you believe that since they aren’t a problem now (in your opinion) they should be protected until after they become a problem.

Using data and experience from other states, which have managed their wildlife without eradicating this species, to prevent that from happening again is a problem?

The real problem is letting the people have a say in the matter. Heaven forbid that our elected legislators should dare attempt to gainsay the infinite wisdom of the "experts." Us humans need to be managed by the unelected bureaucracy in order to experience the true utopia where bobcats, deer, and turkey live in harmony and hold hands and sing, as they did for centuries before we were here.

 

[yetti462]

For the record, the bobcat was never gone from Indiana, their population was low and the number we see today is an explosion from the remnant population that was protected. Many think they were reintroduced, they were not, the river otter was .

The fact that while trapping the bobcat gets accidentally trapped and the trapper is told by DNR to throw the dang thing in a ditch is a complete waste of resources. There needs to be a season so the resource won't be wasted. There needs to be a season so the population can be managed, talk to MS. Albers (biologist). One can talk to the biologist that got the otter season in, bobcat was next on list and that was several years ago .

 

[Purdue1991]

So you believe that since they aren’t a problem now (in your opinion) they should be protected until after they become a problem.

Using data and experience from other states, which have managed their wildlife without eradicating this species, to prevent that from happening again is a problem?

I'm not even sure what your argument is at this point? Why wouldn't Indiana want to protect the population and not allow an open season on bobcats? There's already a mechanism to apply for a nuisance license if a property owner is having an issue.

Secondarily, what's the actual necessity of having an open season? Do you have any data to support why it's needed?

I mean, do you want to have an open season on bald eagles since they're no longer an endangered species? How about federally protected birds of prey. Because it's pretty much the same thing.

Nothing of what you're saying is making any sense whatsoever.

 

[phylodog]

I'm not even sure what your argument is at this point? Why wouldn't Indiana want to protect the population and not allow an open season on bobcats? There's already a mechanism to apply for a nuisance license if a property owner is having an issue.

Secondarily, what's the actual necessity of having an open season? Do you have any data to support why it's needed?

I mean, do you want to have an open season on bald eagles since they're no longer an endangered species? How about federally protected birds of prey. Because it's pretty much the same thing.

Nothing of what you're saying is making any sense whatsoever.

They once weren’t managed and they were essentially wiped out from the state. If there are no lawful mechanisms in place to manage their population they will become problematic in areas and that will lead to people taking matters into their own hands.

Happened with otters and it’ll happen with bobcats. Like I mentioned earlier, talk to landowners in KY and TN if you are interested in what having a well established population can do to an area. I’m not claiming they’re going to decimate turkey or deer populations but if not managed there will be problems.

There’s a reason a significant portion of this country’s large predators were nearly wiped out 150 years ago and it wasn’t because people liked to hunt or bobcats taste like chicken. They were competing for the same resources as humans. Management is what has brought them back in many places.

Contacting DNR as a bobcat is killing your livestock and waiting for a nuisance permit doesn’t appeal to anyone with skin in the game.