Black man shot in Kenosha, riots starting all over again...

[Denny347]

I appreciate your perspective.

Is there a good source I can look at to get further information about points 1 through 3?

Word from my LE friends who reached out to their contacts out there.
On a side note, here is a quote from a witness "The bystander who filmed the encounter told NBC News that police were yelling at Blake to “drop the knife,”

https://www.thecut.com/2020/08/kenosha-police-shooting-of-jacob-blake-what-we-know.html

The warrant for 3rd degree sexual assault
https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.html?caseNo=2020CF000736&countyNo=30&index=0&mode=details

 

[Alpo]

Word from my LE friends who reached out to their contacts out there.
On a side note, here is a quote from a witness "The bystander who filmed the encounter told NBC News that police were yelling at Blake to “drop the knife,”

The bystander who filmed the encounter told NBC News that police were yelling at Blake to “drop the knife,” though they did not see a knife on Blake’s person, and added that Blake “wasn’t being violent.”

 

[craigkim]

Well sure.

I think we have to understand that stupidly putting oneself in a horrible position and a bad shoot can sometime both happen in the same incident.

It's not one or the other.

Unfortunately, in this case, he put more than just himself in a horrible position.

I'm just guessing "one" occurs without the the "other" more than the "other" occurs without the "one". lol

 

[Denny347]

1. What "gas station"?
2. The warrant makes no mention of this.
3. The video screenshot I posted shows no knife in his "non-gun" hand. It's on the door handle. How do you know which is his non-gun hand?
4. The officers were 3 on 1 and couldn't execute a takedown and restraint of this one guy when he was on the ground on the other side of the SUV?

Passing on info I got from a friend homicide detective here. It's small community. Even if I'm wrong on a few points, we are left with what the officer reasonably believed at the time force was used. He had an open rape warrant (3rd degree sexual assault), witness stated he heard the officer tell him to 'drop the knife". So the officers believed he was armed with a knife. Would YOU go hands on with a suspect who you believed was armed with a knife?

 

[printcraft]

The bystander who filmed the encounter told NBC News that police were yelling at Blake to “drop the knife,” though they did not see a knife on Blake’s person, and added that Blake “wasn’t being violent.”

How far away were "they" again? They as in "the bystander" filming the "encounter"?

The bystander didn't see the knife. NOT the police didn't see the knife.

 

[Denny347]

The bystander who filmed the encounter told NBC News that police were yelling at Blake to “drop the knife,” though they did not see a knife on Blake’s person, and added that Blake “wasn’t being violent.”

The officer were yelling, so it is reasonable to say they BELIEVED he was armed. That is the more important part. For brevity's sake here is the SCOTUS ruling on Graham v. Connor. It's a good Wiki summation. This is how UoF is judged since 1989.


"The Supreme Court held that determining the "reasonableness" of a seizure "requires a careful balancing of the nature and quality of the intrusion on the individual's Fourth Amendment interests against the countervailing governmental interests at stake." It acknowledged, "Our Fourth Amendment jurisprudence has long recognized that the right to make an arrest or investigatory stop necessarily carries with it the right to use some degree of physical coercion or threat thereof to effect it." However, it then noted, "Because the test of reasonableness under the Fourth Amendment is not capable of precise definition or mechanical application," the test's "proper application requires careful attention to the facts and circumstances of each particular case."


The Court rejected the notion that the judiciary could use the Due Process Clause, instead of the Fourth Amendment, in analyzing an excessive force claim: "Because the Fourth Amendment provides an explicit textual source of constitutional protection against this sort of physically intrusive governmental conduct, that Amendment, not the more generalized notion of 'substantive due process,' must be the guide for analyzing these claims."


The Court then explained that, "As in other Fourth Amendment contexts... the "reasonableness" inquiry in an excessive force case is an objective one: the question is whether the officers' actions are 'objectively reasonable' in light of the facts and circumstances confronting them, without regard to their underlying intent or motivation." The Court also cautioned, "The "reasonableness" of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight."


The Court then outlined a non-exhaustive list of factors for determining when an officer's use of force is objectively reasonable: "the severity of the crime at issue," "whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others," and "whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight."


Having established the proper framework for excessive force claims, the Court explained that the Court of Appeals had applied a test that focused on an officer's subjective motivations, rather than whether he had used an objectively unreasonable amount of force. The Court then reversed the Court of Appeals' judgement and remanded the case for reconsideration that used the proper Fourth Amendment standard."

 

[BugI02]

Passing on info I got from a friend homicide detective here. It's small community. Even if I'm wrong on a few points, we are left with what the officer reasonably believed at the time force was used. He had an open rape warrant (3rd degree sexual assault), witness stated he heard the officer tell him to 'drop the knife". So the officers believed he was armed with a knife. Would YOU go hands on with a suspect who you believed was armed with a knife?

He'd have to leave the armchair

The way he bends hypotheticals towards only one end, while saying he is awaiting more evidence, leads me to believe his understanding of 'reasonable doubt' needs some work. also

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Word from my LE friends who reached out to their contacts out there.
On a side note, here is a quote from a witness "The bystander who filmed the encounter told NBC News that police were yelling at Blake to “drop the knife,”

https://www.thecut.com/2020/08/kenosha-police-shooting-of-jacob-blake-what-we-know.html

The warrant for 3rd degree sexual assault
https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.html?caseNo=2020CF000736&countyNo=30&index=0&mode=details

Ben Crump is involved (again). The man is like Beetlejuice. Shoot a black man 3 times (or 7) and he magically appears.

 

[Alpo]

I'll be interested to see if Blake actually had a knife.

or a gun in the car.

We are all chasing out tails now until we have some facts.

 

[HoughMade]

Passing on info I got from a friend homicide detective here. It's small community. Even if I'm wrong on a few points, we are left with what the officer reasonably believed at the time force was used. He had an open rape warrant (3rd degree sexual assault), witness stated he heard the officer tell him to 'drop the knife". So the officers believed he was armed with a knife. Would YOU go hands on with a suspect who you believed was armed with a knife?

I would not. As I said, the presence of a knife makes all the difference. If he had one, I see no legal issue. If he did not, then someone (or 12 someones) will have to determine if the belief he had a knife was reasonable.

...as to the warrant, did the cops know this was him and that he had a warrant at the time? If so, it is relevant. If not, it is irrelevant.

 

[Cameramonkey]

The bystander who filmed the encounter told NBC News that police were yelling at Blake to “drop the knife,” though they did not see a knife on Blake’s person, and added that Blake “wasn’t being violent.”

I'll be interested to see if Blake actually had a knife.

or a gun in the car.

We are all chasing out tails now until we have some facts.

So just a variation of them yelling "Stop resisting" without the perp ACTUALLY resisting giving them cover do things they otherwise couldnt. Got it.

 

[Alpo]

Don't really care if you "get it" or not.

No facts at present. I'm willing to wait. No bodycams either.

 

[ditcherman]

I'll be interested to see if Blake actually had a knife.

or a gun in the car.

We are all chasing out tails now until we have some facts.

Funny you should put it that way. Whenever I've had a dog that chased his tail, or a squirrel or bird or whatever, said dog is completely focused on the thing that he will never catch, yet at the same time oblivious to the fact that he will never catch the thing.

Your arguments have made my head hurt. You can focus on the way you want it to turn out. We're just sitting here watching a dog get wore out, not really getting anywhere, until more facts come out. Hopefully they do. Until then, it's pretty easy to see that it was reasonable for the cop to believe he already had something, and was going for something, so cop gets benefit of the doubt in this court of public opinion. Good thing that doesn't matter, huh? Another thing that probably doesn't matter but I'll throw it out there (just between me and you, you know), I'm a lot more predisposed to think like you than many others on here, and I don't see that changing. Not on this one though.

 

[BugI02]

Don't really care if you "get it" or not.

No facts at present. I'm willing to wait. No bodycams either.

I'm just curious why, at every point where binary interpretation of what facts we do have can be made, you assume the more anti-police interpretation. In someone whose mind is not made up, one would think that would be more random

 

[marvin02]

The silence of the Kenosha administration, both police and civil, is deafening. What are they waiting for?

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Funny you should put it that way. Whenever I've had a dog that chased his tail, or a squirrel or bird or whatever, said dog is completely focused on the thing that he will never catch, yet at the same time oblivious to the fact that he will never catch the thing.

.

I would say that if your dog cant catch a squirrel, bird, rabbit, or it own tail your dog dont hunt and you need to get a smarter dog. Perhaps a Wire Griffin or a Chesapeake....
Just Sayin.....

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I would say that if your dog cant catch a squirrel, bird, rabbit, or it own tail your dog dont hunt and you need to get a smarter dog. Perhaps a Wire Griffin or a Chesapeake....
Just Sayin.....

My cat is smart. She hides behind the shower curtain and waits for her tail to come by and then she ambushes it.

 

[BugI02]

The silence of the Kenosha administration, both police and civil, is deafening. What are they waiting for?

For the bus to run over the officers with the back wheels, too?

 

[ghitch75]

[h=1]Jacob Blake seen struggling with officers before being shot, new video shows[/h]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/jacob-blake-struggling-police-officersshot-new-video-shows

 

[Clay Pigeon]

My cat is smart. She hides behind the shower curtain and waits for her tail to come by and then she ambushes it.

lol..