Big Brother runs amok, again?

[jblomenberg16]

If they truly wanted to help public schools they would work with the parents to help their children out. Instead they gang up on the teachers (look at any story about teachers on the news, it's always something bad) and get everybody to bully them. I can't think of a worse profession to be in right now. You administration won't stick up for your decisions, always giving into parents who don't think their child should study, or do homework.

I would agree 100% that teaching is one of the most important positions in our society, but is too often under appreciated. I've severed as a school board member for a small private school (NO Federal or State Funding, but required to meet Federal and State standards), and know that teaching and running a school is not an easy task.

Most of the problems in education these days are with the parents (or lack there of), but there are some problems with the faculty from time to time as well.

I have no problem with measuring performance of students and teachers, as when done well it almost always drives the right behavior and an increase in performance.

What I do have problems with is contracts and policies that allow underperforming schools and teachers to be compensated just like the top performers. Not only does that encourage doing just the bare minimum to get by, but it also in many cases discourages excellence. Why do any more than you have to, right?


*** Note, I'm talking in generalities, so don't take this in any way as discrediting the work you wife is doing.

 

[HighStrung]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vza_bMuy42M

 

[Mad Macs]

jblomenberg16,

You are correct. My wife works with some nutty teachers as well. Some of them aren't the best and should be let go. We can't all be rockstars. And I agree that something should be done with them. I was a teacher for a few years and got between another teacher and administration when I first started as the teacher was my mentor. He needed to go, but was unionized and they couldn't get him out. This was bad too.

 

[cobber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vza_bMuy42M

The kids are stupid to be doing what they're doing, but this guy is creepy to be watching them. If the kids use the computer as a mirror, what business is that of his?

Monitoring the webcams like this seems like voyeurism, whether it's a school computer or not.

Okay, I'll have to rethink what I wrote before. They HAVE to use a school computer, and they CANNOT go 'off the reservation'? I guess we wouldn't want kids to explore and push the envelope. Better to have a bunch of robots who do exactly what the nanny tells them.

I guess if it were my kids, I'd have to tell the school to bugger off too.

 

[beararms1776]

The kids are stupid to be doing what they're doing, but this guy is creepy to be watching them. If the kids use the computer as a mirror, what business is that of his?

Monitoring the webcams like this seems like voyeurism, whether it's a school computer or not.

Okay, I'll have to rethink what I wrote before. They HAVE to use a school computer, and they CANNOT go 'off the reservation'? I guess we wouldn't want kids to explore and push the envelope. Better to have a bunch of robots who do exactly what the nanny tells them.

I guess if it were my kids, I'd have to tell the school to bugger off too.

They're acclimating them for mandatory home cams in their future. When they become adults, they will think it's normal to need a monitoring babysitter.
I don't think it's necessary for kids to have laptops in school. Carrying a backpack of books can't be that bad.

 

[IndyBeerman]

SNIP......

Dr. Timothy Ogle is the Superintendent of Avon schools and when their referendum didn't pass, he thought it would be a good idea to publicly fire teachers in front of their students to "show the community we mean business". All he's done is make his staff hate him, the community hates him, and now the teachers have classrooms of 30-40 kids and work stupid hours to get their jobs done. I know several teachers there and they are ALL contemplating quitting after this year. These are good teachers, "Teacher of the Year" teachers for some of them, and they are done with this bulls**t.

When I went to high school between 1977-80 and also in grade school, myself and all the other kids I went to school with, had no problems with classes having 35 - 40 students in it and the teachers did'nt have a problem either, because after all, they was performing their job and they liked it. If today's teachers don't like the situation, then might I suggest picking up a jobs wanted section and look for a new profession.

You know what, I don't live in Avon, But I do live in Plainfield and pay taxes here, so here's a news flash for you.....


Avon builds a high school that was seriously bloated with perks and cost almost what, 465 Million dollars (sounds about right give a dollar or two),
and this costly innovative school was built to small and they now want to build another high school.

Now Plainfield builds a fiscally sound school larger than it needs for future expansion that gets raves for it's design and innovations, but ONLY 126 Million.


Hmmmmmm........

If Avon would not have cash strapped themselves by trying to be Carmel East and build a costly high school coupled with all their other fancy expensive middle and elementary schools then it would not have been a problem.

But NO, they want to dig deep into the peoples pocket books just like Brownsburg and make them pony up for the schools mistakes.

You know what, TUFF

Stop building Taj Mahal's and build a functioning school with heat and cooling and there might be a little more money to keep teachers.

My 's

Sorry about the thread jack, back to your normal thread discussion.

 

[Mad Macs]

IndyBeerman I agree with your assessment of Avon. That's where my rip on the Indy administrators came into play. I will also say that Mitch promised edu money that he later re-nigged on so Avon and several other schools were left high and dry.

 

[beararms1776]

I will also say that Mitch promised edu money that he later re-nigged on so Avon and several other schools were left high and dry.

Just a guess but maybe Mitch didn't see the need for plush carpets, big screen tv's and laptops for schools and he used the money to keep the state from going bankrupt. jat.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Just a guess but maybe Mitch didn't see the need for plush carpets, big screen tv's and laptops for schools and he used the money to keep the state from going bankrupt. jat.

^^^^^^^
THIS, QFT!

 

[TaunTaun]

Rant Warning!

Here's some thoughts for some of ya'll.

1. Get rid of the Department of Education on the Federal level.

Since, 1980 when Jimmy Carter signed this monstrosity into law and it officially formed, the budget: (U.S. Department of Education Budget History) from 1980 to also include the wanted 2012 budget, including additional appropriations has been approximately 2.68 Trillion dollars. Yes, capital T, lower case rillion. This is the amount of money that the federal government has used the IRS to pull out of our own pockets, so that they can give back to the states, and then the public schools. And for everyone's notice, that does NOT include local and state funding. Over the course of 32 years, the government has pulled out over two and a half trillion dollars so that THEY can decide what our kids need to learn and can hold it over states like the sword of damacles <sp?><public education, don't mind me>.

Are we all convinced that the federal government can spend our money better than our own state or local government? (I admit, some of our locals can be a pain in the butt, but at least they are OUR pains, and not someone else's a-holes.)

Get rid of the Deparment of Education and allow the individual states to operate autonomously. If job providers or colleges figure out that diplomas from (JUST AN EXAMPLE!) Michigan are not worth the paper they are written on, then they will be held in lower regard than a state where they are worth their own weight in gold. And then the states will face their own internal pressure to better their schools.

2. Teacher's Unions.

Can we say, fox guarding the hen house? Now before all of you pro-union supporters get your panties in a twist, step back for a moment to think. Who is one of the largest unions in the nation? Who is one of the largest political donors on the national level? (Mind you, I didn't say local. Why could THAT possibly be? Hmmmm....) So we have a very large, and very well funded organization that pays Washington in campaign donations, so that they can get larger budgets, etc. (Not a real surprise mind you, If I was running an union, I'd be doing the same thing. However I'm not, I have too much pride in my own work. Disclaimer: This opinion does not, however, apply to trade unions that actually ENFORCE their quality of work and boot out those who don't make the cut, or at least doesn't advance them.) I guess this all goes back to who is better at paying for stuff, federal government or local government.

Part 2: You get a brand new teacher at your local school, and they rock the place to the ground, and ends up getting National Teacher of the Year.

"Oh, we got budget cuts coming up. Sorry, you don't have enough seniority. I know you are one of the best teachers in the country, but since Mrs. Adamsapple and a few of her friends aren't quitting, and won't take early retirement, we're gonna have to let you go. Our bad, sorry. Hope that doesn't hurt your feelings."

Teacher of the year among those laid off - Your Houston News: Magnolia:

How Collective Bargaining Forced Milwaukee to Fire a Teacher of the Year | The Weekly Standard

Parsippany lays off a 'Teacher of the Year' | NJ.com

Teacher of the year gets pink slip | The Martinez News-Gazette

N.H. Teacher of the Year Nominee Laid Off - Web Watch - Education Week Teacher

(Just to name a few).

Shall we ask ourselves what the common denominator in all of this is.

Wait for it...




Wait for it...


COLLECTIVE BARGAINING!!!! DINGDINGDING! We have a winner!

Yes, unions have a place, however, they have swung the balance of power so out of kilter, that it is destroying our economies on the local and national level. And before you start going off about "fat cats" and "wall street" that can be DIRECTLY pointed back to electing schmucks like Obama that think "Too big to fail" and doesn't let stupid, ignorant, and dangerous business practices from leveling a corrupt company to the ground. Go Free Market Capitalism! Let it fail. Another will take it's place. So, ask ourselves, what led to this too big to fail mentality. I blame public education, and to a further extent the University system (but that's another topic)

3. Tony Bennett.

The state sup, not the singer. Sure, he's made mistakes, but thus far, from what I've seen with him, I'll take him over Arne Duncan. Not familiar with Duncan? He's Secretary of the Department of Education. When we the last time you saw good ol' Arne coming out to meet the locals to at least DISCUSS policies and ideas?

4. Real Education:

Computers are not the end-all or be-all that most people claim. Being able to spout off a couple words that you see on a screen is NOT knowledge. It's a fricken PARROT (The good ones have the intelligence of a 7 year old some say.). And you know what, we've had guys in our factory that were GREAT at being able to read instructions on how to operate something. But when it actually came to using their head and seeing how the book didn't teach them how to read a RULER, they weren't able to operate a pretty simple CNC type machine. I like how the navy nuke program did it's schools in this regard. If you don't know the basics, you are not allowed to use the tools to make the job easier. If you don't know 2+2=4 without plugging it into a calculator, get rid of the calculator and do your homework!

Computers are the new reason a lot of our "test scores" are going down. It's not because we are busy teaching our kids how to use technology. We are teaching them to become DEPENDENT on technology. This is part of the process of teaching kids how to THINK for themselves, not recite words out of a book. Our nation needs thinkers, not TELEPROMPTER READERS!

5. Summary.

Get the federal government the hell away from our kids. Make the local schools teach the BASICS before giving them fancy electronics that cost too much and potentially invade OUR privacy (not just our kids). I want the kick-ass teachers teaching our kids, not the one that is just there on tenure and is looking to finish out her twenty years. If the teacher's union and collective bargaining prevents us from being able to KEEP those kickass teachers, then the unions can go straight to hell.



Sorry about the long post, if you can't tell, I feel very strongly about the subjects at hand.

 

[Indy317]

Here's the problem with education and it's only going to get worse in Indy. Tony Bennett and Mitch Daniels are out to DESTROY public education. To be fair, I've never met a bigger bunch of idiots than most of the education administrators I've seen in Indiana. Seriously incompetent people making horrible decisions that only seem to make people mad.

Just because K-12 spent money on stuff and Mitch put an end to that doesn't mean they are "out to destroy public education." I don't have kids, but I don't mind paying a reasonable amount to help educate other kids. My school didn't have a swimming pool, we had a basic football "stadium." We didn't have a second gym with an elevated track, nor did we have a nice auditorium. That school I went to now has all that, and of course they have budget problems and had to consolidate and close a school building.

K-12 needs to choose between bling-bling or educating kids. I will be the first one in line saying that smaller class sizes are likely better for kids. But teachers are only cheap on the onset, and with their lifetime pensions and other possible contract obligations, they aren't cheap forever. Too many school districts wanted it all: They want enough teachers to have 15 kids to a classroom. They want bloated administrations. They want slush funds for "training seminars" (a/k/a quasi-paid vacations). They wanted Taj Mahal facilities. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if it was remotely feasible, some district would have eventually had their own 18 hole golf course. I'm glad Mitch came in and stopped the wasteful spending.

Big Education (ie: Higher education) is next. Changes have come, but I foresee major changes still yet to come.

He states that teachers should be paid based on how well their students perform. Too bad the best teacher in the world can't get students to perform if parents aren't involved. Yet nowhere does he mention this OBVIOUS fact that everybody in education seems to understand, yet no politician will ever openly discuss.

This is the only thing I can agree with you about. Politicians want K-12 teachers to save poor kids. There is no way to make that much of an impact when you only have the kids seven hours a day for five days a week, for about nine months a year. So long as the kid(s) are raised in toxic environments, it isn't likely they will succeed in life.

I know several teachers there and they are ALL contemplating quitting after this year. These are good teachers, "Teacher of the Year" teachers for some of them, and they are done with this bulls**t.

Then the teachers should quit. One thing that makes me laugh is this idea that just because you have a four year degree or masters degree makes you worth so much money. Having a masters in education doesn't mean one should make the same wage as a chemist at Lilly who also has a masters in chemistry. Every time I hear this, not just from teachers, I just laugh. I have a four year degree in public affairs. If I quit my current job, I'm likely looking at a $20K pay cut with the type of jobs I could likely get with my degree.

As far as these laptops go, you can bet the school district will be looking stuff up. They may not do it in a manner where someone can just log on and see what is being said/typed/sent/etc.. They could easily install some monitoring software that will focus in on keywords, websites, etc. and send an e-mail notification to someone if that stuff is accessed. These computers should be blocked (if possible) from all internet access through the home. If a teacher demands a kid be able to use the laptop at home, I would be at the school board meeting demanding changes. I wouldn't want an unfamiliar computer I know nothing about on my network. Ask them if they want unknown computers accessing the corporations network, they likely will admit they won't.

I would also be tempted to tell my kid this computer stays at school, don't even think about bringing it home. The school should provide all power for these machines so there should be no reason to have to bring them home to recharge them.

 

[jblomenberg16]

- SNIP -

As far as these laptops go... I wouldn't want an unfamiliar computer I know nothing about on my network. Ask them if they want unknown computers accessing the corporations network, they likely will admit they won't.

Back to one of the comments in the first page, this is exactly why schools are specifying the exact same laptop for all students, that the school provides, and are not allowing privately owned personal laptops into the classroom.

Way to much opportunity for viruses, unwanted content, and other things to come into the school's network.

 

[concrete dog]

Goshen High School has started this program. The computers are locked down tighter than tight when they are at school. My daughters computer from the school has no camera, so no worries there. Our school also allows them to use their own computer if wanted.

 

[wallotcorydon]

I have a daughter that is a sophomore and a step-son that is a freshman at Corydon Central. Last year, my daughters freshman year, the school started issuing every freshman student a laptop. Now all freshman, and sophomores have laptops. They rushed this entire program, and last year was a complete nightmare. There were very little, if any, security on these things. They were wide open to the world, and caused problems. ON numerous occassions I called the school, saying stuff like, "this evening I was looking through my daughters laptop and found.......". Hell, the kids were using Skype during class to talk to other students in other classes! What a joke. The issue this year, seems to be, if there is a problem, they give a loaner laptop, and take the issued one and give to the "computer techs". My step-son is now on week 4 without his issued laptop, and without the ability to access the storage on the schools system with the loaned laptop, therefore, unable to complete assignments at home. I originally thought this was a good program, but once it got started, I HATE IT!

 

[ATOMonkey]

Tablets are a much better idea than laptops.

As far as big brother and tuition go. We already pay a book rental fee. If I can REPLACE that fee with a laptop or a tablet, I'm all for it.

If you don't want the school spying on you, then close it and turn it off.

I fully support transitioning to an e-learning environment. All of the cost and resources associated with text books could be put to much better use, by switching to tablets.

 

[Mad Macs]

Sorry I missed a day of discussions guys, I was laid up with the flu.

Tablets cannot replace laptops. They are consumption devices for the most part. They *can* replace textbooks. Laptops are more for media creation so having both would be ideal.

And in the last few pages we can definitely tell which setups work. Those that are locked down *work*, but may be an inconvenience at times. Those that are wide open, fall apart and cause disastrous situations.

The schools we work with, nobody cares what your kids do when they get home, the only time we even get asked about solutions for monitoring the kids at home is from the parents who don't feel like parenting their children.