Beer Virus V

[churchmouse]

Even with all of the misinformation we got from China on this virus, one of the few clear things we knew early on was that it was more likely to kill the elderly. These five insured the maximum exposure for those most at risk. That's what makes it premeditated.

Seems to look that way.No matter what way you look at it.

 

[Route 45]

Even with all of the misinformation we got from China on this virus, one of the few clear things we knew early on was that it was more likely to kill the elderly. These five insured the maximum exposure for those most at risk. That's what makes it premeditated.

Well to be fair, I said it was not premeditated murder (because it's not). I didn't say that it wasn't premeditated. Likely criminal negligent homicide, per New York statute. But that makes the laughable assumption that a high profile democrat government official will be held responsible for any crime in New York.

 

[Phase2]

Well to be fair, I said it was not premeditated murder (because it's not). I didn't say that it wasn't premeditated. Likely criminal negligent homicide, per New York statute. But that makes the laughable assumption that a high profile democrat government official will be held responsible for any crime in New York.

Why not murder? Murder doesn't require a hands-on act. These five individuals knowingly gave orders that directly caused unjustified and unnecessary deaths. That is also murder. All of highest death-counts in history have been the result of government orders and not hands-on acts.

 

[indyartisan]

At the very least it promoted their agenda.

 

[foszoe]

Why not murder? Murder doesn't require a hands-on act. These five individuals knowingly gave orders that directly caused unjustified and unnecessary deaths. That is also murder. All of highest death-counts in history have been the result of government orders and not hands-on acts.

While it does seem immoral, i would assume no one is forced to stay in a Senior Center, so I don't see how it could be murder by these governors. Not sure what it should or could be under each states laws.

 

[Phase2]

While it does seem immoral, i would assume no one is forced to stay in a Senior Center, so I don't see how it could be murder by these governors. Not sure what it should or could be under each states laws.

You seem to be conflating senior centers with vacation hotels. These were nursing homes where people go when they have limitations and can't fully take care of themselves. The idea is that they will be helped and not intentionally be exposed to risk of death.

 

[churchmouse]

You seem to be conflating senior centers with vacation hotels. These were nursing homes where people go when they have limitations and can't fully take care of themselves. The idea is that they will be helped and not intentionally be exposed to risk of death.

Don't waste your time. He will twist it up no matter what.
Cuomo knew exactly what he was doing in his search for Fed money's.

Murder.....that is a stretch.
Wrong.....oh hell yes it was wrong.

 

[NKBJ]

Can't make a budget without breaking a eggs?

 

[Phase2]

Don't waste your time. He will twist it up no matter what.
Cuomo knew exactly what he was doing in his search for Fed money's.

Murder.....that is a stretch.
Wrong.....oh hell yes it was wrong.

Sorry CM, I won't let it rest. The worst murderers in history didn't violate the law. They were the law.
We always need to be watchful for those who use their positions of power to control and destroy- and those who excuse and support them.
No individual mass murderer has come even remotely near the death counts that leaders/bureaucrats have achieved- and that group most certainly includes Cuomo.

Who Was the Biggest Mass Murderer in History?

PS- I'm not even including wars, which are a different category entirely and can include both offensive and defensive actions, so they are not as uniformly evil as these tyrants.

 

[Ingomike]

While it does seem immoral, i would assume no one is forced to stay in a Senior Center, so I don't see how it could be murder by these governors. Not sure what it should or could be under each states laws.

Apparently you have never been involved with folks in nursing homes, and ever tried to help them leave. Probably a bigger deal than leaving prison, paperwork galore, and everybody involved. It's the money train, follow the money, they all show up! (Though they were MIA for patient treatment.). When you account for all those without outside help many truly are prisoners, at the minimum of the paperwork traps they lack ability to execute.

 

[indyartisan]

Dad was a member of a crew of four that did an escape attempt from the Alzheimer’s unit.
He and the rest of that crew ended up on some new medication and went downhill pretty quick afterwards.
Reminded me of One Flew Over the Cookoo’s Nest.

 

[T.Lex]

I don't know if cases will continue to grow that much or not. But even if they don't the hospitalizations will grow because people often stay in the hospital for a while when they have covid. That's also what will affect the fatality rate. Critical care workers are already very stressed and they cannot replicate themselves.

I've been watching that, too. The critical cases metric (still a black box) was falling until late September, but is now higher than it was early on in the pandemic response. But, that makes sense. We have better strategies to treating it. Just watching Indiana's hospitalization metric shows that we are admitting people (still quit a bit of "slack" in statewide ICU beds) and they are staying longer. That does put more stress on the system, but the outcomes aren't as dire as early on.

It is still a numbers game. With exponential growth in cases, there's a potential lag for exponential growth in deaths. We still haven't really hit the equilibrium point to know what the actual CFR is. Just eyeballing the numbers in the last few weeks, I'm thinking its around 1% of actual cases here in the US. There's a funky prospect of a significant number of false positives in the reported cases. I am aware of easily a half dozen cases just in my circle of acquaintances who checked a positive with a follow-up negative. (Of course, that opens the door for false negatives, too.)

Ultimately, as I said early on, we're stuck with the reported numbers. So, right now I'm thinking the CFR will ultimately be about 1%, with the benefit of effective treatment strategies.

I'm not sure how it plays out if there becomes a shortage of critical care workers. Or worse, if the various vaccines aren't as effective as they've been built up to be.

 

[nonobaddog]

A friend told me about 4 LPN's that went together to get tested for wuhu. They filled out their paper work and were waiting. There was quite a line in front of them and eventually two of them decided they could not wait anymore and had to get to work. They left without getting tested and the next day they were told at work that they had tested positive and had to quarantine.

Hopefully f***ups like this are not commonplace.

 

[ghitch75]

A friend told me about 4 LPN's that went together to get tested for wuhu. They filled out their paper work and were waiting. There was quite a line in front of them and eventually two of them decided they could not wait anymore and had to get to work. They left without getting tested and the next day they were told at work that they had tested positive and had to quarantine.

Hopefully f***ups like this are not commonplace.

I'm sure it happens all the time

 

[foszoe]

Don't waste your time. He will twist it up no matter what.
Cuomo knew exactly what he was doing in his search for Fed money's.

Murder.....that is a stretch.
Wrong.....oh hell yes it was wrong.

Umm. I basically agreed with your conclusion.

 

[churchmouse]

A friend told me about 4 LPN's that went together to get tested for wuhu. They filled out their paper work and were waiting. There was quite a line in front of them and eventually two of them decided they could not wait anymore and had to get to work. They left without getting tested and the next day they were told at work that they had tested positive and had to quarantine.

Hopefully f***ups like this are not commonplace.

Oh but they are my friend. Hear of this a lot and has happened in our family. But go easy on a few in here that will not believe you.

 

[churchmouse]

Umm. I basically agreed with your conclusion.

Uhm.....let me re-read that please.

Edit.....the forced to stay part. Oh but they are in many ways.

 

[BugI02]

I was 21 when that song first came out. And then a couple years later Janis became the 6th group/person to release it and then everybody heard it. I have heard that song countless times and contemplated that line. This has led me to the conclusion that it is just a catchy line in a catchy song. At a first cursory listen it almost sounds right and even profound but upon further examination it falls apart. Freedom does not correlate well with financial status so 'nothing left to lose' is not just about that. In fact the song is mainly about the blues of losing a relationship. 'Nothing left to lose' is even more encompassing than that and is pretty much a state of despair. That is not synonymous with freedom.

Bottom line - Freedom is something. You can lose it. So it is not just another word for nothing left to lose.

I always interpreted it the way I presented it. I really didn't get any sort of reference to financial status out of it. I saw it as saying that the fewer worries one had about losing the valued things in life through ones own actions (because they were already lost), the freer the constraints on those actions became and at the limit, where one has lost everything one valued there were no longer much in the way of limits on what you might or could do (except those imposed by faith, if any)

Freedom has a dark side, the lack of any remaining social or personal connections to the world can free you to bomb a federal building just as easily as it can free you to do something positive. Liberty and freedom are related, but not synonyms

 

[dusty88]

I've been watching that, too. The critical cases metric (still a black box) was falling until late September, but is now higher than it was early on in the pandemic response. But, that makes sense. We have better strategies to treating it. Just watching Indiana's hospitalization metric shows that we are admitting people (still quit a bit of "slack" in statewide ICU beds) and they are staying longer. That does put more stress on the system, but the outcomes aren't as dire as early on.

It is still a numbers game. With exponential growth in cases, there's a potential lag for exponential growth in deaths. We still haven't really hit the equilibrium point to know what the actual CFR is. Just eyeballing the numbers in the last few weeks, I'm thinking its around 1% of actual cases here in the US. There's a funky prospect of a significant number of false positives in the reported cases. I am aware of easily a half dozen cases just in my circle of acquaintances who checked a positive with a follow-up negative. (Of course, that opens the door for false negatives, too.)

Ultimately, as I said early on, we're stuck with the reported numbers. So, right now I'm thinking the CFR will ultimately be about 1%, with the benefit of effective treatment strategies.

I'm not sure how it plays out if there becomes a shortage of critical care workers. Or worse, if the various vaccines aren't as effective as they've been built up to be.

Every critical care doc and nurse that I know in Indiana already indicated they are working beyond normal patient: nurse ratios and nurses working overtime.

The possible good news is the positivity rate clicked down just a little bit. Typically this would be followed by a leveling of cases. But with Thanksgiving this week, I don't think any leveling will last for long .

 

[BugI02]

Well to be fair, I said it was not premeditated murder (because it's not). I didn't say that it wasn't premeditated. Likely criminal negligent homicide, per New York statute. But that makes the laughable assumption that a high profile democrat government official will be held responsible for any crime in New York.

William Jay Gaynor was