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BANKRUPTCY - an American Tradition
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femurphy77
Grandmaster
It seems like it doesn't carry the stigma it once did. I know people that have filed several times. To them it doesn't seem to be much different than going and getting the car washed. I guess maybe I was just raised different, I made my financial bed for better or worse and I live with it. Others feel the need for everybody else to bear the burden of their mistakes while continuing to make the same ones over and over again. Oh wait, this isn't a discussion about the current administration is it?
I've never done it and hope I never will. I know people that did it after the value of their home dropped by tens of thousand dollars, along with medical bills sure to not having insurance. Many said "ohe well" after the banks were saved by the government. The problem is, those same banks and car companies that took the money and got a second chance will not offer the same chance to individuals who have filed bankruptcy.
I worked with a jackleg that filed b/c of maxing his cards out at the casino boats. Less than a month later he want out and got an new used Sebring convertable. He was a better risk than I was b/c he couldn't file for an other 7 years. This was in the late 90s so things may have changed but it NEVER should have been that way.
chraland51
Expert
Filing bankruptcy will not even prevent you from getting a high level government job. If I remember correctly and I could be wrong, the attorney general under Evan Bayh, filed bankruptcy to stiff IU for her student loans. Her husband filed bankruptcy on his own and then they both filed bankruptcy together. It would never occur to me to run up a bunch of debts that I could not pay and then stiff everyone so that they would have to make up for my misdeeds.
I filed once in the 90's because I was stupid. I will never do it again. The funny part at them time my mother(they never filed that i am aware of) made the comment " I hoped you would do better financially then we did". No how can one do better then their parents when no one ever talks to kid's about money any more. All we see is get this or that credit card. get this for a low monthly payment.
The largest percentages of bankruptcies were caused by the large influx of penniless idiot's into the housing industry. The whole housing mess was based on the bigger idiot theory. Normally you will always have idiot's who try to borrow more than they can afford. They are most always held in check by the banks who simply won't loan them the money.
In this case the banks were the bigger idiot's in the equation. They were willingly sucked into this whirlpool of financial stupidity by a housing market they thought would never end, just like the idiot's who wanted to over borrow, and pay over double what the property was worth in the first place. The entire housing market was full of paper and no money. What made the whole thing even worse was the fact these morons who over borrowed did so by attaching them selves to 5 year A.R.M. mortgages that they could not roll over in 5 years because as it turned out their house was worth crap.
This was no different than the Stock Exchange along with the stupidity it operated under in 1929. Then you had idiot's trading over inflated stocks with 5% equity in their accounts. The stocked dropped 5% or more and these idiot's were totally wiped out and left standing naked in the street, worthless, owing money. The housing market took place because most people who borrowed money didn't bother to read a history book. You can't create wealth with paper. They obviously didn't read the famous quote from George Santayana who said, "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it." Now they are, painfully. Bill T.
In this case the banks were the bigger idiot's in the equation. They were willingly sucked into this whirlpool of financial stupidity by a housing market they thought would never end, just like the idiot's who wanted to over borrow, and pay over double what the property was worth in the first place. The entire housing market was full of paper and no money. What made the whole thing even worse was the fact these morons who over borrowed did so by attaching them selves to 5 year A.R.M. mortgages that they could not roll over in 5 years because as it turned out their house was worth crap.
This was no different than the Stock Exchange along with the stupidity it operated under in 1929. Then you had idiot's trading over inflated stocks with 5% equity in their accounts. The stocked dropped 5% or more and these idiot's were totally wiped out and left standing naked in the street, worthless, owing money. The housing market took place because most people who borrowed money didn't bother to read a history book. You can't create wealth with paper. They obviously didn't read the famous quote from George Santayana who said, "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it." Now they are, painfully. Bill T.
what stigma??? the money isnt real...the banks make it up out of thin air and expect you to give them back real money for the phony money they just printed... great scam...
when the banks go bankrupt,,,they get bailed out... same with car companies and airlines... the game needs people at the table,,,or the game collapses...
when you go bankrupt,,,they try to stick a stigma on it so you wont do it and youll keep their engine running...nice scam...
i never heard anyone say john smith was---too big to fail...
its time for everyone to play by the same rules the banks play by... as long as we have fiat money,,,treat your finances like a poker hand,,, when your hand stinks,,,fold,,,and get some new cards... spend a thousand for a BK and youre back in business...
when the big companies go bankrupt,,,they view it just like---i guess we lost that hand,,,deal me in again... when people go bankrupt,,,they want us to feel all remorseful and make a big deal out of it...because the game needs a constant source of money flow,,,and since the big guys can walk away from the table whenever they want,,,and since the big guys have rolled all our debts into securities,,,they want to try to keep us at the table for as long as they can...
when youre really whipping someone at the card table,,,the last thing you want to see is him go home... you want to loan him money to play,,,have him lose all that money back to you,,,and have him try to pay off his debt to you forever...
when a hitter grounds out to the shortstop,,,does he cry about it??? no,,,its part of the game...it happens... if nobody played baseball because they didnt want to ground out,,,because of shame,,,all of baseball would collapse,,,
look at bankruptcy the same way,,,the most important thing to the system is to keep playing and keep that fiat money moving around,,,the only way the system loses is if nobody borrows,,,
cause heres the news,,,that dollar in your pocket is someone elses debt,,,its not real money,,,and its not really even YOUR money,,,you only got it because someone out there is borrowing it... this game needs people to keep taking on debt for your dollars to be worth anything...
if everyone stopped borrowing,,,your bank account is worthless
YouTube - Money As Debt (1 of 5)
i told everyone those were---and are---crap houses
plainfield,,,avon,,,greenwood,,,decatur township and other places are full of cheap junk...
across america,,,more junk houses,,,but buyers didnt know any better,,,and the house looked new and smelled like fresh paint which appeals to people who dont know houses...
the people can be expected not to know better since they were coming out of apartments and the house felt better than the apartment...
the real question is how did the federal reserve,,,goldman sachs,,,wall street,,,the brokerage houses,,,the appraisers,,,and the lenders not know that the houses were overpriced junk??? these people ARE supposed to know better... a 1500 sft house on a cornfield is worth about 45-55,,,TOPS,,,but they were selling them for 250 or more,,,getting the mortgages backed by the feds,,,rolling the mortgages into securities,,,and selling the securities to anyone they could pimp because the fed backing let the securities have a good rating...
the answer is that its all a scam,,,they wanted you to buy those junk cornfield houses for inflated prices,,,and they hoped they could keep everyone employed long enough for all them to get richer
their view is---oh well didnt work,,,give us all back the houses,,and well sell them a second time
its time for everyone to play the game like they play it
There is no question that a lot of these cookie cutter tract homes are of sub standard construction. But that in itself didn't cause the collapse. The prices were driven up by an over inflated market consisting of too many buyers with not enough, (any), money.
Now you have our total idiot of a President going on national television making stupid statements like, "We've got to get the banks to start lending again!" That is exactly what got us into this total mess. The banks are lending. In fact they never stopped. All they did was stop lending to penniless morons who can't pay it back.
I can all but guarantee you if you earn a good wage at a job you've held for 5 years or longer, and come in with at least 20% down, along with not carrying a mountain of other debt, you'll qualify for a 30 year fixed rate loan. These over mortgaged carpetbaggers are going to wind up back in apartments where they never should have left in the first place.
You are going to start hearing a term in the lending industry you haven't heard in a while. It's called collateral. What do you have of value to secure this amount of money you wish to borrow? If your answer is nothing but the home you're borrowing on, you'll be shown the door. This is the way it was 30 years ago. And this is the way it is going to return. It never should have changed to begin with. There is no such thing as "Easy Money" unless you're talking about a Rodney Dangerfield movie. Bill T.
Now you have our total idiot of a President going on national television making stupid statements like, "We've got to get the banks to start lending again!" That is exactly what got us into this total mess. The banks are lending. In fact they never stopped. All they did was stop lending to penniless morons who can't pay it back.
I can all but guarantee you if you earn a good wage at a job you've held for 5 years or longer, and come in with at least 20% down, along with not carrying a mountain of other debt, you'll qualify for a 30 year fixed rate loan. These over mortgaged carpetbaggers are going to wind up back in apartments where they never should have left in the first place.
You are going to start hearing a term in the lending industry you haven't heard in a while. It's called collateral. What do you have of value to secure this amount of money you wish to borrow? If your answer is nothing but the home you're borrowing on, you'll be shown the door. This is the way it was 30 years ago. And this is the way it is going to return. It never should have changed to begin with. There is no such thing as "Easy Money" unless you're talking about a Rodney Dangerfield movie. Bill T.
Student loans are non bankrupt-able.
the scam was on the supply side,,,not the buyers side... a buyer only borrows 200K,,,one time... a developer borrows 20 million,,,over and over again... who was oking the developer loans,,,since these cornfield developments were all totally leveraged???
thats right,,,the banks and investment brokers,,,backed by the fed and the us govt...
did any person who should have known better demand a proper valuation of these cornfield developments??? no,,,they let the developers push them onto the market at face value that they made up an hour before,,,when the face value was complete
and everyone knew it...except the buyer who was fed a bunch of rosy cheerleading from kudlow and greenspan...the housing bubble was created by the big guy,,,not the little guy,,,they got all these developments going and convinced the suckers to buy,,,buy,,,buy... because housing always goes up....
well,,,it didnt,,,and im not going to blame some working sap for getting suckered by people who control the money supply and the media...
thats like me telling you to buy my car because its great and a great value,,,and when it turns out to be a lemon,,,i say,,,well it was your fault for listening to me in the first place...you should have known that i lie
some of you cant accept that the little guy got taken for a ride because you have this ---work and pay your bills ethic--- that lets very rich people get over on the lower classes... if you start saying that ---work and pay your bills--- isnt always an ironclad moral obligation,,,you lose faith in your entire belief system and your great love of capitalism is on thin ice...
bk all these cornfield houses,,,and let the scumballs push them back on the market at proper valuations... there is no sense in paying down a 250K note on a house worth maybe 90K just because the system fed you a moral code that keeps you working for them... if a big company was buying a company for 250 million that was now worth only 90 million,,,the arm of the company that was the buyer would be a separate incorporated company,,,and it would go into chapter 13 immediately to work out a restructuring of the outstanding obligation to buy the overvalued company...
they were before bush,,,now we got all these people getting expensive degrees that dont see a payoff in the workplace...and no way to get out of the student loans,,,even though everyone is taught from kindergarten that a college degree is necessary to get anywhere...
student loans are now bigger than credit card bills...sooner or later,,,theyre going to let people bk these again... bk is a safety valve,,,and weve got millions of people in a tight spot,,, with no economic recovery in sight...
theyre going to have to take the pressure off the student loan people,,,no way around it...
Just because someone is willing to loan you money, doesn't mean you have to take it. The last time I looked the last thing to appear on the bottom of the last page on a home mortgage is the buyers signature.
Look at these "Payday Loan" places. 30 years ago they wouldn't have existed because people had enough financial common sense not to pay 300% interest. Today they stand in line to. That is not the lenders fault. It's the same with these credit cards. These clowns line up to pay 21+% interest to buy depreciating assets with them, then turn around and whine they "can't afford" to pay cash. Then you simply can't afford it period.
Look at car leases, the absolute dumbest thing a person can do financially. You first fork up an "Acquisition Fee", which is basically a down payment you'll never see again. You then sign on to high monthly payments along with mileage penalties as well as financial penalties for every scratch, stain, or dent you put in the car. Then, after they rape you for a predetermined number of months, you have to give the car back and walk with nothing! Most of these clowns would be far better off going to the airport and renting from Alamo or Budget with unlimited mileage. But no, they line up to lease. Why? Because most don't have a pot to **** in or a window to throw it out of, and it's the only way they'll ever drive a "nice car".
To me a "nice car" is one that is PAID FOR! No, I'm afraid you're wrong on this one. It not the banks fault, the Federal government, the builders, the car dealers, or anyone else. It's a stupid buying public with no money to buy with, who was willing to take it from any Tom, Dick, or Harry who was willing to loan it to them. Now they can pay the price, as they damn well should. Bill T.
A lot of money was lost in this fiasco, but you can bet a lot of money was also made. Find the winners in the whole house/loan/trade mess and who thier lobby/law firms and you will see the picture more clearly. Always follow the cash.
You said it, brother!
The only reason a "cheap" car costs 18-20K new is because people will borrow the money to pay it with nothing down. If you had to come up with 15-20% down you'd think a lot harder about that 40K "ride." Same w/houses. I had roughly 12% down plus my VA guarantee to get a decent interest rate and payment.
The bankruptcy law changed a couple of years ago, now more people are required to pay back their creditors instead of just doing a chapter 7 and erasing it.
I completely disagree with saying there is no way around it, how about people living within their means. If someone borrows the money they should have to pay it back no exceptions.
I believe we should do away with bankruptcy forever. People should be responsible enough to pay their bills, and if not the bank should come and get their crap back then if that's not enough they should garnish their wages. I know too many people that have filed BK that should not have.
1 person in particular makes $4000 a month and can't afford their $430 house payment.
They wanted to borrow some money from me so I started asking questions and told them H*** NO. Turn off the $200 cable, tv, phone package. Shut off the $170 cell phone bills and stop spending like crazy. They filed BK last year and I shook my head in disgust.+1 !
Most everyone I work with has 3 digit cell phone bills every month. I don't have one, and see no need for it. There is no one I have to talk to that bad. $120.00 a month is $1,440.00 a year! That's crazy for a stupid pocket phone. These guys spend hours a day starring into that tiny little screen, rolling their thumb around. Then add their home land line, along with cable with every movie package known to man, and it's no wonder these people don't have a dime left at the end of the month!
Getting into peoples pockets with a monthly payment is the new means being used to separate people from their money. Car, (lease) payments, house payments, credit card payments, cell phone payments, cable TV payments. And they've yet to pay for a dimes worth of water or electricity. I heard a guy tell me last month he "couldn't afford" to contribute to his 401-K this year. It's really sad when people put a stupid cell phone over their financial well being. I have no sympathy for these idiot's. None at all. Bill T.
