Ayoob walks you thru a self defense case

[Jack Burton]

Interesting look at what goes on in a trial...

Massad Ayoob: Fist vs. Gun - Disparity of force and the law | The Daily Caller

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Good read.

 

[Coach]

I heard Ayoob lecture on this case at the Tactical Conference back in March.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Very good read. Also one of the reasons I carry pepper spray as well as a gun.

 

[David D]

Given the situation as reported, I'm not certain that I would have handled the confrontation any differently other than if I really thought someone that much bigger than me "wanted to beat the life out of me", I'd like to think that I would have the common sense to not ever go outside. If "Mr. Gunn" had stayed in his home (and yes I agree that he had the right to go in to his front yard) and "Mr. Phist" broke in, I assume that "Mr. Gunn" would never have been charged. I'd rather be thought a coward, than be charged with murder.

 

[g00n24]

Very good read. Also one of the reasons I carry pepper spray as well as a gun.

Anyone know if carrying pepper spray could get you in more trouble in a situation like this? For instance...you end up using deadly force but the prosecutor says you could have just used your pepper spray...and you get tried for murder or whatever.

I get that a D-Bag prosecutor will probably try and charge you no matter what if they think they can get some conviction out of it, and I get that in Indiana you would probably be fine with the laws we have as long as you can show you were in fear of your life. Does anyone know if such a circumstance has come up in any cases ever? Just wondering...

 

[CTS]

Imagine if this guy had a slightly less competent or motivated lawyer who didn't retain someone like ayoob and that left ventrical statement was allowed to stand. Even after winning the initial fight, Mr. Gunn nearly lost his life to the state prison system just for defending himself and his family from being beaten to death.

 

[TheSpark]

You know what made me mad all the way through reading that GREAT article? The fact that this was clearly a self defense situation yet the prosecutors office was pursing a murder charge and even more so the judge was allowing it.

Yes, all self defense situations like this should be investigated, but when it is clearly self defense it should never end up in court.

 

[TheSpark]

Anyone know if carrying pepper spray could get you in more trouble in a situation like this? For instance...you end up using deadly force but the prosecutor says you could have just used your pepper spray...and you get tried for murder or whatever.

I get that a D-Bag prosecutor will probably try and charge you no matter what if they think they can get some conviction out of it, and I get that in Indiana you would probably be fine with the laws we have as long as you can show you were in fear of your life. Does anyone know if such a circumstance has come up in any cases ever? Just wondering...

Legally you are allowed to do whatever you can to terminate the threat on your life. If the first thing you can grab is pepper spray and that ends it, great. If you decide to forgo the pepper spray and go to a more reliable means such as a gun and that ends it, great. So the legal answer I guess should be no, you can not get in more trouble or any trouble at all for that matter.

 

[Magnum]

Ayoob's work always makes for an interesting read. Reminds me of another article I read about disparity of force where he served as an expert witness: http://www.shastadefense.com/ArmedCitizenNetwork_2010-9.pdf
In both cases the defendants were in a very bad spot in terms of appearances, but both times they were acquitted.

 

[Jack Burton]

Given the situation as reported, I'm not certain that I would have handled the confrontation any differently other than if I really thought someone that much bigger than me "wanted to beat the life out of me", I'd like to think that I would have the common sense to not ever go outside. If "Mr. Gunn" had stayed in his home (and yes I agree that he had the right to go in to his front yard) and "Mr. Phist" broke in, I assume that "Mr. Gunn" would never have been charged. I'd rather be thought a coward, than be charged with murder.

Normally I would agree with you but in this circumstance I can understand the husband/father wanting to keep the guy out of the home with his wife and kids there. It is true that if he had stayed inside Phist might have gone away... or he might have escalated it in ways that were even more harmful.

There was no "good choice" in this situation and I think he picked the best of the "bad choices."

 

[j706]

Wow what a story! If anyone thinks this kind of thing is not spooky they have something wrong with them. Long story short (IMO) don't become a victim or a statistic but always make a serious attempt to avoid a confrontation if possible. Even though this guy won he still payed dearly and that sucks.

*** referring to Magnums post

 

[Fixer]

Always been a fan of Ayoob. If I am ever in that situation I will be calling him for an expert witness on my behalf.

 

[ratfortman]

It's a shame that a man ended up dead, but it sure seems like Mr Gunn was justified. I would be in fear for my life after Phist's statement about beating the life out of him, and then taking a blow to the head like that.
I might have been tempted to use the Orange County, IN defense plea: "your Honor, he needed killing".

 

[ratfortman]

I also believe that Ayoob advises folks to never use reloaded ammo for self defense. The idea being that a prosecuting attorney will make hay out of your desire to create a monster load, and that you were just waiting for a chance to try them out. Not sure there is any case history pointing to that, though.

 

[Phil502]

well worth reading!