ATF Warns Montana, Now.

[mrjarrell]

First it was the ATF warning Tennessee not to disobey them. Now they've added Montana to their list. It looks like Mr. Carson W. Carroll, Assistant Director is flexing his authority. Hopefully Montana and Tennessee will flex back. Personally, I'd like to see Mr. Carroll marched out of his office in chains headed for a court date in Billings and a lengthy sentence breaking rocks, for violation of civil rights. Who knows, Montana might even still have the death penalty.

(You can view Mr. Carroll's letter to MT FFL's at the Gun Rights Examiner.)

 

[Prometheus]

Just for sake of the argument, by getting a FFL you agree to follow the 'rules' set down by the ATF (among others).

A person w/o an FFL selling Montana made firearms wouldn't be subject to subject to such contractual obligations.

Should the fed.gov take this to court, they will use a federally licensed dealer so they can nail them under their "sworn oath" to abide by federal laws and regulations. This way they can get 'precedence' but do an end run around the entire State Sovereignty issues.

My advice? Anyone (in Montana) selling "Montana made" firearms should NOT have an FFL. That way they can't bust you for violating your FFL contract. I am obviously not a lawyer, but the issue is pretty strait forward from a licensing point of view.

 

[El Cazador]

I'm still cheering for the states and the Tenth Amendment, but I wouldn't want to be the private citizen (or manufacturer) that gets caught in between. Both the Feds and the states have a historical problem with not worrying about "collateral damage" and "acceptable losses" when hammering out a compromise on big issues.

 

[mrjarrell]

That's why Gary Marbut, of the Montana Shooting Sports Assoc., is looking for a non-FFL to manufacture the first firearm(s) and move right along. All it'll take is someone with courage and a few honest cops to help protect them from being kidnapped or murdered by the ATF.

 

[AFA1CY]

For some reason I can not see the actual letter from the ATF. Could you cut & paste it here?
Thanks

 

[mrjarrell]

I don't know of any way to copy the letter. It should be viewable in most browsers (can't speak for IE, haven't touched that one in years). Here's a direct link to it.

Montana Open Letter

If that doesn't work you might try a different browser.

 

[Cwood]

Here is a link to the .pdf file on the ATF website.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/071709-montana-openletter.pdf

 

[Hoosier8]

Open Letter to all Montana Federal Firearms Licensees

The purpose of this letter is to provide guidance on your obligations as a Federal firearms licensee (FFL). The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is dedicated to your success in meeting requirements as a Federal Firearms licensee.

The passage of the Montana Firearms Freedom Act, House Bill 246 (Act), effective, October 1, 2009, has generated questions from industry members as to how this State law may affect them while engaged in firearms business activity. The Act purports to exempt personal firearms, firearms accessories and ammunition manufactured in the State, from most Federal Firearms laws and regulations. However, because the Act conflicts with Federal firearms laws and regulations, Federal law supercedes the Act, and all provisions of the Gun Control Act and the National Firearms Act, and their corresponding regulations, continue to apply.


As you may know, Federal law requires a license to engage in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition, or to deal in firearms, even if the firearms or ammunition remain in the state. All firearms manufactured by a licensee must be properly marked. Additionally, each licensee must record the type, model, caliber or gauge and serial number of each firearm manufactured or otherwise, and the date such manufacture or other acquistion was made. Firearms transaction records and NICS background checks must be conducted prior to disposition of firearms to unlicensed persons. These, as well as other Federal requirements and prohibitions, apply whether or not the firearms or ammunitions have crossed state lines.


If you have any questions regarding the Federal firearms laws and regulations, please contact your local ATF office. ATF works closely with the firearms industry and appreciates the important role the industry plays in combating violent crime. A listing of phone numbers can be found at : ATF Online - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms


It is signed by Carson W. Carroll Assistant Director (Enforcement Programs and Services)

 

[melensdad]

Just for sake of the argument, by getting a FFL you agree to follow the 'rules' set down by the ATF (among others).

A person w/o an FFL selling Montana made firearms wouldn't be subject to subject to such contractual obligations.

Should the fed.gov take this to court, they will use a federally licensed dealer so they can nail them under their "sworn oath" to abide by federal laws and regulations. This way they can get 'precedence' but do an end run around the entire State Sovereignty issues.

My advice? Anyone (in Montana) selling "Montana made" firearms should NOT have an FFL. That way they can't bust you for violating your FFL contract. I am obviously not a lawyer, but the issue is pretty strait forward from a licensing point of view.

Agreed on all points.

That was exactly my take when I was looking over the letter to the State of Tennessee. They may only be able to enforce their rules IF the manufacturer/seller is an FFL holder because the FFL is required to obey specific regulations/rules and those would very likely be binding regardless of where the gun was made/sold/kept.

 

[jeremy]

The Gov does not have enough on their plate with us starting the slide into a Depression, Screwing the populace on Universal Health care and who knows what else they are messing with. And now they are talking this nut?!

 

[Manan]

x

 

[SigSense]

I have to say I love this. These scenarios are the precise REASON this great (Republic) country was formed!

 

[jeremy]

I approve of what they are doing, but not me. I don't have the balls or the money.

Ya know. I'm not afraid of the Russians, I'm not afraid of the Chinese, I'm not even afraid of the al-Qaeda, but I am afraid of the ATF and the IRS.

You ain't the only one!
Most of the world is more scared of the ATF and the IRS than they are of Our Military...

 

[SavageEagle]

Yea, the military will just shoot you and move on. The ATF will just shoot you and anyone else resisting and then let the IRS take your home, land, car and anything else you own...

 

[indykid]

As you may know, Federal law requires

Actually, Mr ATF know-it-all, federal law says "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". What about that do you not understand Mr ATF know-it-all???

 

[Go Devil]

I approve of what they are doing, but not me. I don't have the balls or the money.

Ya know. I'm not afraid of the Russians, I'm not afraid of the Chinese, I'm not even afraid of the al-Qaeda, but I am afraid of the ATF and the IRS.

I guess they've got you right where they want you.

 

[haldir]

The Gov does not have enough on their plate with us starting the slide into a Depression, Screwing the populace on Universal Health care and who knows what else they are messing with. And now they are talking this nut?!

How else are these people going to get attention. Don't kid yourself all these guys like to see themselves in the news. All the attention is on the economy, health care, etc. So this guy has to be an ass to make a name for himself.

 

[theweakerbrother]

Why don't we starting writing letters to him?

 

[POTI]

Since when did we need a FFL to produce ammo?

 

[hookedonjeep]

First it was the ATF warning Tennessee not to disobey them. Now they've added Montana to their list. It looks like Mr. Carson W. Carroll, Assistant Director is flexing his authority. Hopefully Montana and Tennessee will flex back. Personally, I'd like to see Mr. Carroll marched out of his office in chains headed for a court date in Billings and a lengthy sentence breaking rocks, for violation of civil rights. Who knows, Montana might even still have the death penalty.

(You can view Mr. Carroll's letter to MT FFL's at the Gun Rights Examiner.)

Having been born and raised there, I can tell you that as of about 10 years ago, they did..... and the option of hanging by noose 'till death was still an option.
That being said, if they still do have the death penalty...... would it be rude to tailgate?????