Arkansas Gun Range Owner Bans Certain People of a Certain Religion

[GodFearinGunTotin]

So this is okay?

How about this?

Yes. Don't get me wrong. It's not good but at least I can ignore how a private individual chooses to run his company. On the other hand when your .gov does it, you chance the loss of liberty and pursuit of happiness; to wit:

Commission says Christian business owners should leave religion at home | Fox News

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ecision-that-will-likely-hurt-their-business/

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014...ing-cakes-undergo-sensitivity-training-after/

 

[Henry]

So this is okay?

How about this?

If they are private enterprises, yes.

I would choose not to patronize them, but they are free to run their model as they choose.

What is your opinion of smoking bans in private establishments?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Yes. Don't get me wrong. It's not good but at least I can ignore how a private individual chooses to run his company. On the other hand when your .gov does it, you chance the loss of liberty and pursuit of happiness; to wit:

Commission says Christian business owners should leave religion at home | Fox News

After Being Fined and Forced to Host Gay Weddings, Christian Farm Owners Make Drastic Decision That ?Will Likely Hurt Their Business? | TheBlaze.com

Baker forced to make gay wedding cakes, undergo sensitivity training, after losing lawsuit | Fox News

If they are private enterprises, yes.

I would choose not to patronize them, but they are free to run their model as they choose.

What is your opinion of smoking bans in private establishments?

But it was just this sort of thing that was made de facto if not specifically de jure "not okay" by the civil rights movement of the 60's, wasn't it?

I disagree with the smoking ban in private establishments, however that is a recent development. Not 50 years old like the former.

 

[Henry]

Same path, my friend.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Same path, my friend.

Yes and no. And yes I'm probably guilty of moral relativism in my opinion. However, smoking is a choice. The ethnicity of a person is not.

ETA, as a smoker, I can choose to patronize an establishment that doesn't allow smoking by simply not smoking for the time I am there. As a black or a white, I can't decide NOT to be black or white to go into an establishment that doesn't allow people of my ethnicity.

 

[Henry]

Ethnicity is indeed not a choice... nor does it matter.

I would rather private enterprise choose than state force.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

But it was just this sort of thing that was made de facto if not specifically de jure "not okay" by the civil rights movement of the 60's, wasn't it?

I disagree with the smoking ban in private establishments, however that is a recent development. Not 50 years old like the former.

Was the disease cured?

I contend no. We just institutionalized it at the federal level. And like real diseases, it's morphed and mutated but it's still there.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Was the disease cured?

I contend no. We just institutionalized it at the federal level. And like real diseases, it's morphed and mutated but it's still there.

I don't disagree with this.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Ethnicity is indeed not a choice... nor does it matter.

I would rather private enterprise choose than state force.

Okay, let's say you're in a mixed marriage. What restaurant would you go to if all of them banned folks of one of your ethnicities? I just think that it does matter. A shop owner can say, we will gladly serve you, but you must refrain from smoking while in our establishment. That's perfectly legal. It doesn't need a law to make it so. The patron can agree not to smoke and there's no problem. The same shop owner can't say we will gladly serve you, but you must refrain from being ________. (Insert ethnicity of your choice) The patron cannot choose to do that if they still want to patronize the establishment.

 

[rambone]

You can't have freedom without the freedom to fail... or the freedom to be an ignorant bigot.

 

[SteveM4A1]

You can't have freedom without the freedom to fail... or the freedom to be an ignorant bigot.

You mean we aren't free to make our own choices?

I have my surprise face on now...

 

[sb0]

So this is okay?

Is it "okay"?

No.

Neither was the latest Klan rally. Neither are anti-gun liberals, and people I just don't like for whatever reason.

Not okay and not legal are two separate things.

Not too comfortable with the implication that agreement that something's not okay is analogous to agreement that it should be illegal. And that's basically your argument.

YMMV.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Is it "okay"?

No.

Neither was the latest Klan rally. Neither are anti-gun liberals, and people I just don't like for whatever reason.

Not okay and not legal are two separate things.

Not too comfortable with the implication that agreement that something's not okay is analogous to agreement that it should be illegal. And that's basically your argument.

YMMV.

No, that wasn't my argument actually. My argument was that the type of discrimination/segregation illustrated in the pics I posted no longer exists (at least not openly). I was just wondering how that compares to the discrimination/segregation that (openly) exists in the OP. The smoking ban argument is different in that smoking is a choice and one could simply not smoke to be allowed into an establishment that does not allow it. One can not change their ethnicity (at all) or their religion (not easily) just to be allowed into an establishment that does not allow it.

 

[Compatriot G]

When I first read this story, I went to the Facebook page of the range. While I supported her on the basis of private property rights, I asked her how she planned to enforce the ban. I pointed out that members of this certain religion come from all races and many different ethnic groups.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

DD -

I would suggest - as others have tried , I believe, that the solution to Racism/Classism/Discrimination based on religion/etc can be handled one of two ways. We can use government/state force to make such practices ILLEGAL or we can choose to call out such practices as being WRONG HEADED and BIGOTED and choose not to patronize businesses that followed such practices.

I for one - would choose to patronize a shooting range that chose to place an ISIS flag in the bottom of the urinal for example. That's making a statement against the enemy of my country. I would NOT choose to patronize a shooting range that had a sign out front saying "No Muslims [or insert any other religion or race here] Allowed". Is it their RIGHT to choose that model of business - YES. And if they want to exclude anyone else for any reason - well I can't stop them. I will be the first to point out that I think that they are bigoted and I won't join them in that. But I don't think that Government FORCING them to accept anyone is the way to fix it. The free market will do the job nicely.

GOVERNMENT forcing a solution only morphs the racism (or other "ism") and drives it into the closet. The free market tends to show people WHY it's a really bad idea. It tends to change communities for the better.
Affirmative action and similar government force, tend to breed resentment via reverse discrimination. Google Allan Bakke. I think I spelled his name correctly.

I happen to believe in the words of Martin Luther King's dream. Something about "the content of his character" as opposed to "the color of his skin". (and I think that we could safely include "who a person does or does not choose to worship".) I agree that WE SHOULD NEVER BE GUILTY of being bigoted - ESPECIALLY at a shooting range, etc. BUT I DO NOT , FOR A SECOND believe that should be enforced by government mandate. That's a slippery slope on the road to hell...

Yikes - I might have just agreed with Rambone...

Freedom does include the right to be an ignorant bigot if one so chooses. Freedom does NOT mean freedom from the backlash of the market for that choice.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

The Justice Department went to Arkansas and told them "We're not saying you can't DO THAT, We're saying you can't have a sign that says you're gonna DO THAT".

 

[indiucky]

I won't sell a classic military rifle in original configuration to someone who says while holding the weapon, "Hey bro, does Ramline make a stock for these here and how hard is it to bend that bolt down?"

I don't care what race/color/creed/religion someone is....I do care, however, what they are going to do with a weapon that I sell them....I checked with ATF while we were setting up the shop and they said it was my business and if I wasn't comfortable with selling someone a gun that it was my perogotive to not do so...

DoggyDaddy is the only Canadian that I will sell an old rifle too....I noticed he has dropped most of his accent now and he really tries hard to pass himself of as a Hoosier (Hoser?) but I know better...He let it slip last winter when he called his knit watchman's cap a "Tuke"...

Oh and I will see you tomorrow DoggyDaddy...I got you an old style Dr. Pepper iced down for you in the fridge...You Canucks get so hot while walking around Knob Creek....

 

[LP1]

IBTL

Private property rights. Guess they can do what they want. If people don't approve then the free market will punish them.

Yeah, just like the free market punished the "whites only" businesses in the south. If you open your business to the public, don't discriminate.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Yeah, just like the free market punished the "whites only" businesses in the south. If you open your business to the public, don't discriminate.

Against whom and what? Where's the line?

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Yeah, just like the free market punished the "whites only" businesses in the south. If you open your business to the public, don't discriminate.

Fair enough, back in the day... But even take away the anti-discrimination laws and let's see you open such a business today.

It _might_ survive... but the internet and faster communication have leveled the field. People have much more in the way of democratic choice when buying a "widget". Consider that if I knew that the [insert local business of choice] in Salem (for a cheesy example) was a racist bigot. Back in the day I dealt with that person, or I likely did without. Today, I can get on the internet and have it shipped to me in a flash. I can also travel to a neighboring area much quicker and easier than before.

That kind of choice has changed the equation. It lessens the power stranglehold that folks can possess.