Are You Staying in Jail?

[GuyRelford]

I taught my Comprehensive Indiana Gun Law course today - we had a great group and very lively discussions. We also spent a lot of time on Indiana's new preemption statutue, which gave me an the idea for my next "legal scenario," so here you go:

You have a very good friend who is a great guy - he just has one significant failing. He gets way too drunk and then likes to drive way too fast. So he was recently convicted of his third OWI and sentenced to do 180 days. He's being held over in the Marion County jail, with the possibility of being transferred elsewhere, and he really wants you to come visit.

You're downtown when you get his message and decide to stop by and see him, if you can. You're carrying a Glock 30, .45 ACP. You know that most local jails like the Marion County jail have always prohibited any form of deadly weapons on the premises, but you've also studied the new preemption statute and believe that Marion County, as a political subdivision, can't preclude you from carrying your gun into the building - even if they have metal detectors at the doors, because you have a valid LTCH.

You walk confidently through the front door and ask the desk sargeant where you should check our handgun before visiting your friend.

You end up in handcuffs - then in the cell next to your friend.

Are you staying in jail (i.e., have you committed a crime?)

Note: if you were in my course today, you are ineligible to answer!

Guy

 

[serpicostraight]

dont they have lock boxes where you can secure it before you actually get into the jail itself?

 

[kevman65]

Since the City/County Building also houses the Courts doesn't that make it exempt from the new law and weapons are still verbotten?

 

[GuyRelford]

Since the City/County Building also houses the Courts doesn't that make it exempt from the new law and weapons are still verbotten?

Great question! But the Marion County Jail is on Maryland Street - a block or so away from the City-County building.

 

[GuyRelford]

dont they have lock boxes where you can secure it before you actually get into the jail itself?

Also a good question - but does it matter, in terms of whether you've committed a crime?

 

[9mmfan]

I'll put my two cents in. Over 12 yrs ago I was working armed security at west side South Bend bar. After a particularly exciting night, one of the patrons I had tossed out ( and the police arrested), I was asked my the guys girl to show them were the jail was. They followed me downtown, were I walked them into the front door of the jail. When the jail personnel at the front desk saw I was carrying, they went ape**** and said I would have to wait outside. I said, sure, no problem and went outside. Five minutes later another guard came out and said I could go back in. I then went back in, waited until the young lady was taken to see her guy, then left.
After that long story, my guess would be we could carry into a jail, but would be kept from carrying beyond a certain point (just like the cops)

 

[jsharmon7]

Yes, you are staying in jail.

 

[Bill of Rights]

IIRC, aren't there courtrooms in the jail buildings? i.e. magistrate courtrooms?

If so, yeah, you're stuck there. You could probably make the case that you had no knowledge of the courtroom being there, but I hope you have a good lawyer to argue on your behalf.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[jeremy]

Curious...

I have not really read up on the new Laws yet or talked it over with My Lawyer...
Looking forward to the discussions on this...

 

[INMIline]

My guess as well. But tagged for future ref

Yes, you are staying in jail.

 

[BDBHoover]

Marion County jail is actually connected to the City County Building via an underground tunnel....... Would that make it part of the City County Building seeing as the are connected via this tunnel whether known by the public or not?

 

[jsharmon7]

Methinks there is a hint in the wording of the OP.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Marion County jail is actually connected to the City County Building via an underground tunnel....... Would that make it part of the City County Building seeing as the are connected via this tunnel whether known by the public or not?

South Bend tried to make that argument; we'll see what happens with that.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[GuyRelford]

There are certainly courtrooms in the Arrestee Processing Center on Washington St., and in the City-County Building that the jail is connected to by an underground tunnel.

But for the sake of the discussion, let's assume there are no courtrooms involved. It's just a jail.

 

[Silverado]

I used to work in the jail long ago, and back then, there was a courtroom in the jail for expedited drug trials. If that's still the case, then I'm betting that firearms would still be prohibited, although I don't think it would be a crime to violate a local ordinance....only a civil ordinance violation. No jail.

In any event, trusting the half-trained special "deputies" at the Marion county jail to be familiar with current firearms laws is probably a bit optimistic. So you may end up in cuffs until they figure out the law, and you may not.

At the city-county building, which DOES have courtrooms and metal detectors, the most I know of the the guards doing in the past (before the preemption law change) was to refuse entry until the gun was secured back in the person's vehicle. Again, no jail, and no reason for arrest.

This is a list of prohibited items in the city-county building:

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Courts/JuryPool/Documents/Prohibited Items List.pdf

The end of the document even states that the person will be given an opportunity to remove the item, unless the item was illegal for the person to possess to begin with.

I vote: No jail. Not even handcuffs, if you find a special "deputy" who knows what he is doing.

 

[BDBHoover]

There are certainly courtrooms in the Arrestee Processing Center on Washington St.

But for the sake of the discussion, let's assume there are no courtrooms in the Marion County Jail. It's just a jail.

If the scenario is as you say..... as of July 1st said person committed no jailable crime and should be released and apologized to several times and the arresting officer should be educated with the new statutes that have been put into place

 

[jedi]

Marion County jail is actually connected to the City County Building via an underground tunnel....... Would that make it part of the City County Building seeing as the are connected via this tunnel whether known by the public or not?

I don't know about the Marion County Jail since I have never been. However if this is true (ie. the 2 buildings are connected via a tunnel) then they most likely are considered one entity. This would depend on how the local government zones the place.

Look at this example for now the Town of Griffith zoned the St. Mary School.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...self_defense/76519-where_does_school_end.html

In that example the school has one entire town block and also shares 1/2 of another parcel with the town park. So long as you stay on the eastern side of the parcel (where the park is at) you are OK. But if you attempt to go to the park's playground which is in the west side of the parcel that is INSIDE the zoned "school" area and now you are in trouble of having a gun on school property even though you are in the park's playground equipment!

So I suspect that you need to know how the "jail" is zoned. Is it considered a zoned parcel of land by itself or is it like the St. Mary School above which takes up 2 separate parcels of land when it was zoned as school.

 

[Bill of Rights]

There are certainly courtrooms in the Arrestee Processing Center on Washington St.

But for the sake of the discussion, let's assume there are no courtrooms in the Marion County Jail. It's just a jail.

Given this assumption, they are allowed to restrict firearms, just not from LTCH holders. Whether they have done so or not depends on whether they have a LEO manning the metal detector. As you got to the desk sergeant, I would say that no metal detector was involved and thus, no prohibition. You're out, and again, I hope you have a good lawyer, because you're both probably going to receive some financial compensation.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[GuyRelford]

But wait - if there's an exception in the new preemption statute for hospitals that have a secure correctional facility within the hospital (meaning that firearms can be legally prohibited there), how can there not be an exception for a JAIL??

 

[BDBHoover]

But wait - if there's an exception in the new preemption statute for hospitals that have a secure correctional facility within the hospital (meaning that firearms can be legally prohibited there), how can there not be an exception for a JAIL??

I'm stumped but looking forward to reading the proceeding posts