Are You Liable?

[DesertDoc]

I think you are safe even though you may have used poor judgement. While you may be sued I think it would eventually be unsuccessful although it may cost you virtually everything you own in legal fees. If some one breaks into my home and steals a kitchen knife that is later used in a robbery/homicide Im not liable. I think it would be similar in this situation. Morally I think you are going to have a lot of sleepless nights ahead of you.

 

[darinb]

liable?

That would be a terrible situation. I have been in court before and watched a lawyer twist and turn things around. Seriously, alot of unknowing members of a jury may be easily swayed that your negligence allowed a felon to get ahold of a loaded weapon, that in itself I think would seriously screw you. One thing is for sure the opposing lawyer is going to go at you and the theifing murderer and anybody else, a situation like that would probably make big headlines and the antigun crowd would use the situation to their best ability.

 

[ocsdor]

First of all, don't tell people (especially their lawyer) you left your house unlocked or your weapon loaded in the house. Make the lawyer prove it.

Secondly, if I'm on that jury, he won't be found liable.

This is why good people, especially gun owners, should not "duck-out" of jury duty.

 

[GuyRelford]

Answer to the Question

Hey, folks - in case you missed it earlier in the thread, here's the answer (perfectly stated by Timjoebillybob):

Originally Posted by Timjoebillybob
I'm going to have to go with no. The owner has clear immunity in this instance under Indiana Code 34-30-1


WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

That is exactly right - due to the fact that the gun was stolen, Indiana law provides immunity from civil liability in this situation (as well as others in which a firearm is obtained illegally):

"IC 34-30-20-1

Owner immunity for misuse of a firearm by a person who acquires the firearm by criminal act

Sec. 1. A person is immune from civil liability based on an act or omission related to the use of a firearm or ammunition for a firearm by another person if the other person directly or indirectly obtained the firearm or ammunition for a firearm through the commission of the following:
(1) Burglary (IC 35-43-2-1).
(2) Robbery (IC 35-42-5-1).
(3) Theft (IC 35-43-4-2).
(4) Receiving stolen property (IC 35-43-4-2).
(5) Criminal conversion (IC 35-43-4-3)."

In this situation, your failure to lock your house or otherwise secure your firearm, as well as your use of hollow-point ammunition, would all be considered "an act or omission related to the use of a firearm or ammunition" for which there is immunity if the gun is stolen.

As many of you stated, moral responsibility is an entirely different matter. Personally, I'd rather get skinned alive and eaten by pygmy cannibals than have to live with the knowledge that I failed to secure a firearm and that failure contributed to an innocent person's death. Nonetheless, Indiana law provides immunity from civil liability under these circumstances.

Many of you ultimately answered this question correctly, focusing on the fact that the gun was stolen. The most important fact is that any civil lawsuit would be summarily dismissed under the immunity statute, unlike other situations in which you might ultimately win, but you have to spend a fortune in legal fees during the process.

Great job Timjoebillybob!! You get $25 off your next TFT training class! (Although it sounds like you may not need to take Comprehensive Indiana Gun Law!) Reps to you.
__________________
Tactical Firearms Training, LLC. Go Tactical. Stay Legal.

 

[TopDog]

These threads by GunLawyer are really insightful. I hope you keep coming up with these scenario's that make us stop and think.

 

[tharlow514]

Reason #1 Alcohol

On a side note: Where in the IC does it say you can't consume alcohol while carrying a firearm? I know it says you can't be an alcohol abuser but that is vague.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

On a side note: Where in the IC does it say you can't consume alcohol while carrying a firearm? I know it says you can't be an alcohol abuser but that is vague.

While I and most/all responsible gun owners agree that alcohol and firearms don't mix. There is nothing in IC code specifically prohibiting drinking while carrying.

And the legal definition of an alcohol abuser is(at least for firearms).

IC 35-47-1-2
"Alcohol abuser"
Sec. 2. "Alcohol abuser" means an individual who has had two (2) or more alcohol related offenses, any one (1) of which resulted in conviction by a court or treatment in an alcohol abuse facility within three (3) years prior to the date of the application.

 

[tharlow514]

While I and most/all responsible gun owners agree that alcohol and firearms don't mix. There is nothing in IC code specifically prohibiting drinking while carrying.

Thanks for clearing that up. So, technically he would not be breaking the law by keeping his firearm on him while at his friends drinking. However, I agree that alcohol and firearms don't mix.

 

[haldir]

While I and most/all responsible gun owners agree that alcohol and firearms don't mix.

Au contraire. SOme of the funniest videos I have ever seen came about due to alcohol mixing with firearms or even better fire or explosives. Oh, wait, you meant in a good way. Never mind.

 

[GuyRelford]

While I and most/all responsible gun owners agree that alcohol and firearms don't mix. There is nothing in IC code specifically prohibiting drinking while carrying.

And the legal definition of an alcohol abuser is(at least for firearms).

Exactly right.

For folks with multi-state permits, or who travel with their Indiana LTCH under the reciprocity rules, be mindful of the fact that many states have statutes that say it is illegal to carry anywhere that alcohol is served, or with a detectable BAC.

 

[Bill of Rights]

even if you left the gun laying on the dining room table with your doors unlocked, i wouldnt think you could be held liable regardless of the punk's age because he was not invited into your home.

thats like saying, it wasnt a burglary if i left my door unlocked at night and someone came in and stole all my wife's jewelry. the perp still broke in and took possession of property he wasnt entitled to.

i think it might be different if you invited the kid into your house.

just my $0.02. IANAL.

Another example is the woman who walks down the street wearing a mini-skirt and tight, low-cut top (and no, I don't have pictures to post! ) If this woman is raped, the law is clear that she was NOT "asking for it".

The criminal, not the victim of a crime is the one at fault for the commission of it, which is why there is a statute covering "entrapment" where a person does something he would not have otherwise done at the behest of LEOs.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Fiexie]

Opens up a can of worms in Proximate Causation. You left the gun out, with the knowledge that a loaded firearm on the table is a risk for security. Depending on the state, you could be held responsible criminally, but I"m more afraid of whats happens civilly with the family members coming back on you :S

blah blah not lawyer, don't take as legal advice blah blah

 

[henktermaat]

NEVER, leave ANY firearm unattended!

So = carry all of your guns all of the time? Nope.

 

[finity]

Unlocked house: the owner has made no reasonable effort to secure his/her property and has no right to feel secure.

Absolutely wrong. Every person has the right to be secure from others illegal actions. I'm not saying that's the reality, there are criminals around who violate others security. All I'm saying is that just because I leave my house unlocked is not a defense for a criminal who enters illegally.

You may be stupid if you leave your house unlocked but that doesn't mean you give up your right not to have your property stolen.

ETA: I guess you are technically right that no one has a right to "feel" secure, even the homeowner who takes great pains to secure his property. Not even you. You have a right to "be" secure but not to "feel" secure.

I'm going to have to go with no. The owner has clear immunity in this instance under IN code.

Indiana Code 34-30-20

Great find. Thanks for the info.

 

[rambone]

I assume the same outcome applies if you left a firearm in your vehicle and it was stolen?

Good thread!