"Are you kidding me?" / Facepalm Thread (pt 2)

[JettaKnight]

If that was Obama, INGO would never shut up about it.

 

[printcraft]

If that was Obama, INGO would never shut up about it.

He's not bowing to him.

 

[HoughMade]

If that was Obama, INGO would never shut up about it.

Maybe some would...but they would be petty. Courtesy ain't submission.

 

[JettaKnight]

He's not bowing to him.

This is a joke, right?


How the heck is it acceptable for the Commander in Chief to salute an enemy soldier?!


Please explain how this is acceptable, while bowing to your equal head of state ally isn't.

 

[JettaKnight]

Maybe some would...but they would be petty. Courtesy ain't submission.

It was with Obama. INGO had a complete conniption over the bowing incident.

I pretty sure we had 10 pages of ranting about the selfie stick.


I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but let's at least admit we've changed the rules because of the letter after the president's name. We have I don't know how many memes about liberals (mostly journalists) that flipped flopped on what's acceptable and right, then we do the same darn thing we profess to despise with nary a hint of self realization.

 

[HoughMade]

Well, no one in civilian garb should be saluting anyone anyway...I think we have President Reagan's good-hearted attempt to show respect to thank for this breach of protocol, so there's that. Beyond that, the President should not be saluting anyone regardless of what he is wearing. Again, breach of protocol.

That aside, and in a somewhat different, but relevant context, should U.S. POWs have saluted their Nazi captors? Seems crazy, right?

...except, yes.

If you are an enlisted prisoner of war, you must salute all enemy officers. If you are an officer prisoner of war, you salute only enemy officers of equal or higher rank. You render your own salute, not the salute as executed by the enemy.Where other matters of military courtesy and discipline are concerned, you have the same rights and duties as your opposite number in the enemy army.

You are subject to all laws, regulations and orders enforced in the enemy army. You may be tried and if found guilty, punished for infractions of enemy regulations. However, no form of cruelty may be used in your punishment. Generally speaking, arrest, confinement and disciplinary punishment may be imposed upon you in the same manner as upon the enemy's own personnel of equivalent rank.

If You Should Be Captured, These Are Your Rights - War Department Pamphlet No. 21-7 - May 1944 (Lone Sentry)

So, much ado about nothing.

...as was President Obama bowing. Probably a breach of protocol, but courtesy and protocol don't always match up. Getting all exercised about every little thing?

I can't account for what pettiness others want to engage in, but as much as I disliked President Obama's policies, I never thought this was anything and feel free to search the archives. I'm sure that this was a big deal to a vocal few.

 

[JettaKnight]

That aside, and in a somewhat different, but relevant context, should U.S. POWs have saluted their Nazi captures? Seems crazy, right?

...except, yes.

I watched Hogan's Heroes.

So, much ado about nothing.

...as was President Obama bowing. Probably a breach of protocol, but courtesy and protocol don't always match up. Getting all exercised about every little thing?

You must be new to INGO.

 

[spencer rifle]

If You Should Be Captured, These Are Your Rights - War Department Pamphlet No. 21-7 - May 1944 (Lone Sentry)

How'd that work out with the Japanese? Ashio Copper Mines Country Club?

 

[Spear Dane]

How'd that work out with the Japanese? Ashio Copper Mines Country Club?

Depended on their mood. Enslavement, beheading and being eaten were all possible.

 

[HoughMade]

...and I'm sure that not saluting the enemy officers would have prevented that...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/non sequitur

 

[JettaKnight]

[video=youtube;4k4NEAIk3PU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k4NEAIk3PU[/video]

 

[printcraft]

Let's try some context next time!

Trump RETUNED the salute, he didn't initiate it.

[video=youtube;95omyBXZwMM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95omyBXZwMM[/video]

 

[Ericpwp]

Retune in Tokyo?

 

[spencer rifle]

...and I'm sure that not saluting the enemy officers would have prevented that...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/non sequitur

That may have been the point of the pic, but that wasn't my point. My point, as you pointed out, was in the same paragraphs, dealing with the "same rights and duties" and punishments not allowed, which we applied to their prisoners but they did not to ours:

If you are an enlisted prisoner of war, you must salute all enemy officers. If you are an officer prisoner of war, you salute only enemy officers of equal or higher rank. You render your own salute, not the salute as executed by the enemy.Where other matters of military courtesy and discipline are concerned, you have the same rights and duties as your opposite number in the enemy army.

You are subject to all laws, regulations and orders enforced in the enemy army. You may be tried and if found guilty, punished for infractions of enemy regulations. However, no form of cruelty may be used in your punishment. Generally speaking, arrest, confinement and disciplinary punishment may be imposed upon you in the same manner as upon the enemy's own personnel of equivalent rank.

Granted, this could be a digression.
But we are INGO. Digression is what we do.

 

[BugI02]

This is a joke, right?


How the heck is it acceptable for the Commander in Chief to salute an enemy soldier?!


Please explain how this is acceptable, while bowing to your equal head of state ally isn't.

A salute is a gesture of respect

A bow is a gesture of submission

 

[JettaKnight]

A salute is a gesture of respect

A bow is a gesture of submission

It's kind of moot given that Trump was returning a salute. But, I thought a bow in Oriental culture was out of respect, no?



- Jetta, who has egg on his face from getting suckered by a photo without context.

 

[sharkey]

But, I thought a bow in Oriental culture was out of respect, no?

So... not only did President Obama perform an act that indicates submission and weakness in our culture, he was also committing an egregious act of cultural appropriation at the same time.


Hmmm.

 

[HoughMade]

So... not only did President Obama perform an act that indicates submission and weakness in our culture...

Wait, I thought we were talking about a bow, not ******* some guy's ****.

 

[printcraft]

Wait, I thought we were talking about a bow, not ******* some guy's ****.

Those cocaine/limo rides are da bomb.

 

[BugI02]

It's kind of moot given that Trump was returning a salute. But, I thought a bow in Oriental culture was out of respect, no?



- Jetta, who has egg on his face from getting suckered by a photo without context.

It is a fine line. In Japan the depth/degree of the bow is determined by the relative status of the individuals involved. The deeper the bow, the greater the recognized disparity

There is a bow of about 15 degrees (eshaku), used in greeting, which indicates that the two parties are of equal status

Then there is a deeper bow of from 30 to 45 degrees (keirei) indicative of respect, used when one party is of higher social or business rank or has some other power over you (for instance, your inlaws)

Finally there is the deepest bow of from 45 to 70 degrees (saikeirei) indicative of deep or profound reverence, appropriate for an audience with the Emperor or some supremely holy or revered figure

Except in the most obvious situations it is a very subtle skill to correctly judge the social/business balance of power on the fly and get bowing just right. That being said, I'm not sure the most powerful man on earth (arguably the US president) need ever bow subserviently to anyone