Are Libertarians Racist? Salon thinks so.....

[T.Lex]

C'mon American dude, get your geography right.

I said Netherlands, not Dutchland.

 

[jamil]

These problems add up to federalism as the solution which has been in practice thrown out of our system of government. States' rights amount to reading the Tenth Amendment and acting accordingly which has not been done since the Civil War, and the failure has been multiplied in more recent times.

I cannot even assign one side or other the distinction of being worse. Southern Aristocrats used the perception among poor white southerners of having a social class beneath them to gain support to the point of fighting in a war to defend their cash cow. Northern Aristocrats used a ginned-up noble cause to motivate poor while northerners into supporting them to the point of fighting in a war do defend their cash cow (i.e., the captive audience/market the north had in the south). It is hard for me to find a moral high ground here. In terms of governance, states' rights is more defensible than we are simply going to use a tariff to force you to buy our more expensive goods at your expense because we can, not that this really changes the fact that two self-serving political interests had a showdown on the battlefield and it ended the way it ended.

The only moral high ground I can find in the outcome is that the practice of enslaving humans (outwardly, at least) ended. I can't be in favor of individual liberty while also wishing that the South had won the States' Rights battle so that they could continue to enslave human beings. That's not liberty. I can wish that our leaders would have recognized what greed would cost our nation, and set political and material gain aside for the sake of the republic.

Unfortunately and maybe ironically, the new freedom won for blacks came at the cost of important constitutional concepts. If both sides of the Civil War really had the USA's best interest at heart, they'd not have played those political games that cost us so much.

 

[rhino]

C'mon American dude, get your geography right.

I said Netherlands, not Dutchland.

Heh! I have a gift for your from my netherlands!

 

[jamil]

Well thank you very much [STRIKE]mister helper[/STRIKE] Minister of Help.

Now I'll have to learn some obscure dialect of Dutch.

FIFY

 

[jamil]

Heh! I have a gift for your from my netherlands!

Is that a bribe?

 

[indiucky]

When I first started posting here and read Kut's posts, I though he was in left field. But time has given enough data points for me to decide that he's not a progressive moonbat. I don't usually agree with him. He does like to challenge typical Conservative rhetoric. But I have to be honest with myself and admit when he's right about something.

Ditto.....Except for the part about him being right about something....(Just kidding Kut....)

 

[T.Lex]

Heh! I have a gift for your from my netherlands!

Please let it be a wooden clog, please oh please oh please!

Or that hot actress from Holland.

(Could describe just about any of them.)

(For the Americans who are geographically impaired, the Netherlands and Holland are REALLY close together on the map.)

 

[jamil]

When I first started posting here and read Kut's posts, I though he was in left field. But time has given enough data points for me to decide that he's not a progressive moonbat. I don't usually agree with him. He does like to challenge typical Conservative rhetoric. But I have to be honest with myself and admit when he's right about something.

Ditto.....Except for the part about him being right about something....(Just kidding Kut....)

I did say "when". And when that time comes along, I'll be sure to admit it.

Even a broken clock is right twice per day. Except for my digital iHome one that I want to take to the range someday. That one's always wrong. I wanna see if I can dot the "i".

 

[indiucky]

I think a lot of southern politicians, during that time, can avoid being called racist, as most weren't ideologues (like Thurmond), they were simply politicians who swayed with the beliefs of their constituents.

George Wallace anyone????? Started out running as a progressive on race, got his clock cleaned, came out as a staunch segregationist, became Governor, got shot, changed his tune and ended up hiring minorities at a faster rate than the folks up North. The last time he ran he ended up with 90% of the black vote....

Drive By Truckers have a song about George Wallace going to Hell and sipping iced tea with the Devil....Didn't go to Hell for being a racist (in the song) but because he sold out his original values for votes and played on peoples fears to get those votes...I will see if I can find the tune and post it...It's pretty good...


[video=youtube;0cyDwYi4TD8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cyDwYi4TD8[/video]

Here is just the Wallace song without the intro...

[video=youtube;bUd_t_QeSqw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUd_t_QeSqw[/video]

 

[jamil]

Please let it be a wooden clog, please oh please oh please!

Or that hot actress from Holland.

(Could describe just about any of them.)

(For the Americans who are geographically impaired, the Netherlands and Holland are REALLY close together on the map.)

Let me get this straight. You want a wooden clog from Rhino's netherlands?

 

[BugI02]

George Wallace anyone????? Started out running as a progressive on race, got his clock cleaned, came out as a staunch segregationist, became Governor, got shot, changed his tune and ended up hiring minorities at a faster rate than the folks up North. The last time he ran he ended up with 90% of the black vote....

Drive By Truckers have a song about George Wallace going to Hell and sipping iced tea with the Devil....Didn't go to Hell for being a racist (in the song) but because he sold out his original values for votes and played on peoples fears to get those votes...I will see if I can find the tune and post it...It's pretty good...


[video=youtube;0cyDwYi4TD8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cyDwYi4TD8[/video]

Here is just the Wallace song without the intro...

[video=youtube;bUd_t_QeSqw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUd_t_QeSqw[/video]

IIRC its called "The Devil don't stay"

 

[BugI02]

George Wallace anyone????? Started out running as a progressive on race, got his clock cleaned, came out as a staunch segregationist, became Governor, got shot, changed his tune and ended up hiring minorities at a faster rate than the folks up North. The last time he ran he ended up with 90% of the black vote....

Drive By Truckers have a song about George Wallace going to Hell and sipping iced tea with the Devil....Didn't go to Hell for being a racist (in the song) but because he sold out his original values for votes and played on peoples fears to get those votes...I will see if I can find the tune and post it...It's pretty good...


[video=youtube;0cyDwYi4TD8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cyDwYi4TD8[/video]

Here is just the Wallace song without the intro...

[video=youtube;bUd_t_QeSqw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUd_t_QeSqw[/video]

Left to right Allen Collins, Gary Rossington and Ronnie Van Zant, I believe

 

[BugI02]

Billy Powell was a heck of an upright piano player too

 

[IndyDave1776]

The only moral high ground I can find in the outcome is that the practice of enslaving humans (outwardly, at least) ended. I can't be in favor of individual liberty while also wishing that the South had won the States' Rights battle so that they could continue to enslave human beings. That's not liberty. I can wish that our leaders would have recognized what greed would cost our nation, and set political and material gain aside for the sake of the republic.

Unfortunately and maybe ironically, the new freedom won for blacks came at the cost of important constitutional concepts. If both sides of the Civil War really had the USA's best interest at heart, they'd not have played those political games that cost us so much.

While that is a preferred outcome, I cannot consider it a moral high ground when it was incidental to the actual motives for initiating an armed response to the session of the South, and was not even made an issue until the Emancipation Proclamation which itself was a shameless political maneuver to mobilize the support of the average British citizen to sympathize with the Northern cause and put pressure on their politicians to stop assisting the South economically and materially.

 

[oldpink]

That's all you got? Your understanding of that Byrd quote only tells me you're not Southern, and don't quite understand what is being said. That word he used, white Southerners, who had used it commonly, found a sudden backlash in it's use. So they tried to rehabilitate it, in the best, most reasonable way they could. Even old blacks, for a time, used it.... not to describe a person of color, but to describe a "low class" person. You probably thought he was referring to white people that wears gold chains, drive cars with big rims, and act like what they "think" black is, and that Byrd is referencing those types of persons. You'd be incorrect. It was used as a catchall for an ill-mannered, ignorant, low class person; be it used to describe a person from a trailer park, a project, or a neighbor with 3 cars on cinder blocks in the front yard with dogs running in the streets.

But I could be wrong, "what" exactly did you think he meant when he used that term? What image, to you, comes to mind when he used that word?

Kut (thinks this should be good.... "IF" he decides not to ignore the question, and answer it)

IOW, as long as it's one of those "good" Democrats using a racial slur, you conjure all manner of assumptions to give him the benefit of the doubt, but let a Republican make a comment that could be even remotely considered having a racial connotation, and out come the condemnations.
Got it.
Excuses are like you know what, and they all stink.

 

[rhino]

Is that a bribe?

Do you want it to be?

Please let it be a wooden clog, please oh please oh please!

Or that hot actress from Holland.

(Could describe just about any of them.)

(For the Americans who are geographically impaired, the Netherlands and Holland are REALLY close together on the map.)

Yeah, really close. Like as close as MY and A$$.

And I could sit and watch Famke Janssen eat a bowl of cereal for two hours.

Let me get this straight. You want a wooden clog from Rhino's netherlands?

It's not an unusual request.

 

[Kutnupe14]

IOW, as long as it's one of those "good" Democrats using a racial slur, you conjure all manner of assumptions to give him the benefit of the doubt, but let a Republican make a comment that could be even remotely considered having a racial connotation, and out come the condemnations.
Got it.
Excuses are like you know what, and they all stink.

Where's the racial slur? Who are you saying should be offended? I'm sorry, but it appears to me that you have issue Byrd's comments, because of what exactly? Because he's not using it in reference to a group you agree with? That's, how it looks. So care to enlighten us?

Kut (doesn't think OldPink is very good at this game, or he would've seen this coming)

 

[oldpink]

btw...when do we get our Secret Decoder rings to decrypt the incredibly arcane cypher that is Southern politics?

 

[Kutnupe14]

btw...when do we get our Secret Decoder rings to decrypt the incredibly arcane cypher that is Southern politics?

Ring? We hand out whistles.

 

[indiucky]

Ring? We hand out whistles.

Papaw gave me the one he brought up from Muhlenburg County...I love those things...You blow into it and it says, "Don't burn my farm Yankee...I voted for Lincoln..." And then you suck in on it and it says, "Don't steal my hog Reb...... I would have some slaves if I could afford them..."

He said it helped get us through the Civil War in one piece....We had a great great great Uncle who got kilt because he sucked when he should've blowed.....

Gotta be careful with them whistles....