Another violation of Posse Comitatus

[jsgolfman]

The soldiers in question were MP's. From the link below:
"I am a wife of one of the MP's patrolling Samson Al last night. They were asked to come in and help out. All the MP's did was keep the reporters out and people from going down the 3 block crime scene. They asked for help and the MP's provided that help."

So, appears they were called in to provide law enforcement duties of crowd control, etc. While that appears innocent enough. What powers do they have to enforce their requests? No act of congress, no constitutional provision. If they tell someone to leave the area, what lawful power to they have to enforce that command?

Army patrols downton Samson AL after shooting spree, page 6

 

[ihateiraq]

The soldiers in question were MP's. From the link below:
"I am a wife of one of the MP's patrolling Samson Al last night. They were asked to come in and help out. All the MP's did was keep the reporters out and people from going down the 3 block crime scene. They asked for help and the MP's provided that help."

So, appears they were called in to provide law enforcement duties of crowd control, etc. While that appears innocent enough. What powers do they have to enforce their requests? No act of congress, no constitutional provision. If they tell someone to leave the area, what lawful power to they have to enforce that command?

Army patrols downton Samson AL after shooting spree, page 6

local police were only a radio away, if not in shouting distance.

 

[techres]

The soldiers in question were MP's. From the link below:
"I am a wife of one of the MP's patrolling Samson Al last night. They were asked to come in and help out. All the MP's did was keep the reporters out and people from going down the 3 block crime scene. They asked for help and the MP's provided that help."

So, appears they were called in to provide law enforcement duties of crowd control, etc. While that appears innocent enough. What powers do they have to enforce their requests? No act of congress, no constitutional provision. If they tell someone to leave the area, what lawful power to they have to enforce that command?

Army patrols downton Samson AL after shooting spree, page 6

That makes more sense. And that would remove the misuse of the word "patrol" to something like "securing crime scene". Some reporter not being able to get the picture and story he wanted, took a picture of men in uniform, added the word patrol and put that baited hook into the pond in order to hook some fish.

As for their legal right to act, I bet there is some provision related to being near a base and reasonable measures based on overlapping jurisdictions.
As for constitutional challenges, the only ones miffed at that time were reporters who were being kept from taking sensational pictures, and reporters are only up on certain constitutional law issues (1st ammendment and nothing more).

Frankly, it was nice of the MP's to lend a hand. And had they not been there, maybe some people would have been deputized to do the same job. Take that for what you will.

I am ready to jump up and down over "patrol", but not "keep the press off the crime scene - especially when it is a handful of fellow LEO's helping.

I.E. this is more a jurisdiction issue and less Posse issue for me.

 

[Ashkelon]

My question is -- by whom were they called in to help? I am placing my bet they were called in early as there was concern this may have been more than one person in an orchestrated attack and they were worried others would follow suit. After the fact it is easy to see the lone gunman scenario but at the time on the ground a safe assumption is this person is not alone - particularly with attacks taking place between geographical distances.
I just can't figure out what local law enforcement could not have done that the MPs were able to do. As if there aren't enough deputies and "honorary" deputies that could tell people to stay back? Scary times a coming folks.
We will begin to see soldiers stationed locally (like the 500 they just announced at Atturbury) to help out and make for quicker response.

 

[techres]

My question is -- by whom were they called in to help? I am placing my bet they were called in early as there was concern this may have been more than one person in an orchestrated attack and they were worried others would follow suit. After the fact it is easy to see the lone gunman scenario but at the time on the ground a safe assumption is this person is not alone - particularly with attacks taking place between geographical distances.
I just can't figure out what local law enforcement could not have done that the MPs were able to do. As if there aren't enough deputies and "honorary" deputies that could tell people to stay back? Scary times a coming folks.
We will begin to see soldiers stationed locally (like the 500 they just announced at Atturbury) to help out and make for quicker response.

Except look at their gear. If they got called out for any kind of dangerous duty, they would have their carbines. No carbines means no sense of danger to me.

 

[jeremy]

They may not have had carbines on, but they did have their M9's. What was the ROE? What were they supposed to do? MP's of the Res have no arrest authority.

 

[Bill of Rights]

do me a favor, and stay away from terms like "pal" hmm. thank-you. yes, ive studied history. yes, people thought hitler was harmless. yes, he wasnt. however he used what amounts to a personal army to catapult himself into power. last time i checked, obama was legally elected by a vast majority of the electoral college. the same process we have used since the founding days. were there men in armbands at the polling stations? i didnt get the chance to go. if someone was in the booth with you watching you punch your ticket with a gun, or a knife, or a club, or even a clenched fist, let me know and ill concede to you that we should be fearful of obama putting people into ovens. if you feel obama is on the same plain as hitler, your best bet is to leave america, because hes an unstoppable evil genius. whats really interesting is that you took my reference to ruby ridge as a threat somehow. show me somewhere in my post where i said that family was guilty and deserved what they got...you wont be able to. i mentioned that incident because he obviously did something to put himself on the governments radar. right or wrong, they didnt throw a dart at a map, and raid the house that it happened to land on. they went there for a reason, even if it was bogus.

There was an election, yes. Obama was reported to have gotten the majority of the popular vote despite some major questions about his eligibility for office; questions which remain to this day. Of course, with him now in office, I do not think that any "evidence" supposedly proving his birth in the US would be accepted, considering the power of the office.

Of note, no, no one was in the booth with me, however I do recall pictures, some of which were posted here on INGO, of the Black Panthers apparently standing guard outside of polling stations in Pennsylvania, if memory serves. I do not recall if this happened in other places as well.

Obama has access to some very scary powers now, thanks to Bush and the Congress in the post 9/11 fervor and furor. Will he be putting people in ovens? Not likely, I'll agree. This does not mean he will not be implementing some very unConstitutional policies which will stand until they are challenged and a lawsuit against the government is permitted and winds it's way to SCOTUS. This could be a long time away. He has spoken openly of a civilian security force as well funded and equipped as the US military. Somehow, I'm betting that they won't be out delivering Christmas cards to patriotic American gun owners, though it would not surprise me if they were all willing to kneel several times a day with their butts facing the sunset.

In sum, yes, I do fear the power that Obama currently wields. I do not know what he's going to do with it, but I do not see much good coming from it.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[haldir]

Good review by Bill, don't forget the Acorn group that registered folks multiple times and some that could not legally vote in the place they were registered for.

 

[mike8170]

They may not have had carbines on, but they did have their M9's. What was the ROE? What were they supposed to do? MP's of the Res have no arrest authority.

Correct on no arrest authority, but all soldiers still have the right to defend themselves when confronting a hostile situation, plus the M9 is part of the MP's duty uniform. More than likely the ROE would have been no fire unless fired upon, but that is just from my experiences, since we don't know what there orders were.

 

[Joe Williams]

do me a favor, and stay away from terms like "pal" hmm. thank-you. yes, ive studied history. yes, people thought hitler was harmless. yes, he wasnt. however he used what amounts to a personal army to catapult himself into power. last time i checked, obama was legally elected by a vast majority of the electoral college.snip.

Hitler was legally elected, in absolutely legitimate elections. Every action he took, including the use of military personell to enforce the law, was absolutely legal by the laws of the nation he led.

Your understanding of the history, purpose, intent, and application of Posse Commitatus is seriously lacking. Disturbingly so for a Military Policeman. You really should have a firm grasp on the limits of your authority and power.

No, there is no excuse for active duty military to be patrolling American streets because of a lone gunman. This is the latest in a series of disturbing incidents of military being deployed against civilians inside our borders. In direct violation of our laws.

 

[Joe Williams]

The soldiers in question were MP's. From the link below:
"I am a wife of one of the MP's patrolling Samson Al last night. They were asked to come in and help out. All the MP's did was keep the reporters out and people from going down the 3 block crime scene. They asked for help and the MP's provided that help."

So, appears they were called in to provide law enforcement duties of crowd control, etc. While that appears innocent enough. What powers do they have to enforce their requests? No act of congress, no constitutional provision. If they tell someone to leave the area, what lawful power to they have to enforce that command?

Army patrols downton Samson AL after shooting spree, page 6

None. Nada. Zilch.

 

[Joe Williams]

snip

I.E. this is more a jurisdiction issue and less Posse issue for me.

Really? They've got no legal authority to secure a crime scene. No legal authority to keep press away. No legal authority to use those weapons they are carrying. None. Nada. Zilch.

 

[INRanger]

Really? They've got no legal authority to secure a crime scene. No legal authority to keep press away. No legal authority to use those weapons they are carrying. None. Nada. Zilch.

Neither do the lawfully armed citizens mentioned several times throughout this posting. What they do have is training, structure and most importantly accountability. If a legally armed citizen whom we'll call Bubba were to get involved and hit a bystander or shoot an undercover police officer or even get shot by responding police officers due to his lack of identifying markings, how much worse did the situation or its aftermath just get? If one of those MP's were to have been put into a situation to use his sidearm, he has general ROE, SOPs and policies. All of those criteria needing to be met lessen the chance of an unfortunate incident. You can trust your troops guys, afterall they are made up of the same kind of people that make up this forum. That being said, holy-overreation batman! My town has 4 full time police officers last year we had a lone gunman do his thing and the four of them handled it. You don't see me outside killing ants with a flame thrower. If the city and county LEO's were incapable of handling a situation that the all train for then they need to be replaced.

 

[BloodEclipse]

i didnt say it was a good or bad idea. i dont wear funny shapes on my chest. i wouldnt have used soldiers. we had the same problems in new orleans. it was really an undefined mission. but apparently the local pd sucks, and the army could respond faster than the state.

Respond to what? The guy killed himself.

So they are out there protecting the citizens against his ghost?

EDIT: Now that I have made my way through the rest of the posts, I can agree the military may be better trained to handle "holding off the press" but regardless that is not their job. Where are the State Police? I don't care how many of them there were it is a violation and it like being a little pregnant.

 

[Chefcook]

There was an election, yes. Obama was reported to have gotten the majority of the popular vote despite some major questions about his eligibility for office; questions which remain to this day. Of course, with him now in office, I do not think that any "evidence" supposedly proving his birth in the US would be accepted, considering the power of the office.

Of note, no, no one was in the booth with me, however I do recall pictures, some of which were posted here on INGO, of the Black Panthers apparently standing guard outside of polling stations in Pennsylvania, if memory serves. I do not recall if this happened in other places as well.

Obama has access to some very scary powers now, thanks to Bush and the Congress in the post 9/11 fervor and furor. Will he be putting people in ovens? Not likely, I'll agree. This does not mean he will not be implementing some very unConstitutional policies which will stand until they are challenged and a lawsuit against the government is permitted and winds it's way to SCOTUS. This could be a long time away. He has spoken openly of a civilian security force as well funded and equipped as the US military. Somehow, I'm betting that they won't be out delivering Christmas cards to patriotic American gun owners, though it would not surprise me if they were all willing to kneel several times a day with their butts facing the sunset.

In sum, yes, I do fear the power that Obama currently wields. I do not know what he's going to do with it, but I do not see much good coming from it.

Blessings,
Bill

Bill,
I have to say everything I have read that you have written, has been intelligent, informed, honest and pretty much right on spot. I hope and pray to God that I am wearing a tinfoil hat. There is nothing on this earth I would wish for more than for these things not to be true.

I just plain do not trust the powers that be, and after doing my own investigation as limited as my resources are, I believe every word in these videos are true. Something has to be done. If we wait another 2 years it will be too late...

The Obama Deception

America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version

 

[Chefcook]

i didnt say it was a good or bad idea. i dont wear funny shapes on my chest. i wouldnt have used soldiers. we had the same problems in new orleans. it was really an undefined mission. but apparently the local pd sucks, and the army could respond faster than the state.

I have seen some video of some actions taken by officials in New Orleans that IMO were treasonous. I don't know what you ran into or what part you played there. I count myself blessed everyday because I was not there. Otherwise I would undoubtedly be dead today. Had I been there anyone attempting to take away my ability to protect my property or to forcibly enter my home for any reason without my consent would have been fired upon.

 

[Jack Ryan]

[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] Obviously the police werent doing enough, because "at least 10 people were killed." If this was going on in your city, wouldnt you want any help you could get?
[/FONT]

No.

If the army is sent in to quell a disturbance where I live, I will want any help I can get to send them back where they came from.

 

[Jack Ryan]

lol...are you serious? love him or hate him, obama isnt going to round anyone up and exterminate them. i hope you were using hyperbole and thats not what you really feel is going to happen. its that thought process that leads to ruby ridge-esque incidents. the government is not out to get you. just because people dont have the same views as you doesnt mean theyre trying to kill you.

...not the first day...

 

[lumpy39us]

Ok cool, troops on the watch. Not so much to worry about there!
Now the big picture, implied message=
Local Law Enforcement can't handle the situation! Looks pretty calm to me!
Based on my experience, I'm not a butter bar, The Govenor has to order the National Guard to provide assistance. As for Active duty Soldiers, Who calls them in?
If you make any referrals to happenings off post, the Military has its hands tied, civil matter!
Food for thought, times are changing.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Obama is currently considering whether or not to send troops down to the Mexican border. I'm tired so I can't remember if it is National Guard troops or Army troops.

I know it isn't the same situation, not my point. Just saying that, in the case of supporting the border, Obama is the decision maker.