another one

[Trigger Time]

Also if this "problem" runs up this high in the chain of command (and I never doubted it did), how many captains like this one or others are turning a blind eye to their fellow officers because they 'understand' and do it too? I still would like to see every cop blow into a pbt or something similar before their shift starts. I understand some mark on driving to work. So I guess Indy needs to invest in devices that won't allow the police cars to start unless the officer blows to start it.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Also if this "problem" runs up this high in the chain of command (and I never doubted it did), how many captains like this one or others are turning a blind eye to their fellow officers because they 'understand' and do it too? I still would like to see every cop blow into a pbt or something similar before their shift starts. I understand some mark on driving to work. So I guess Indy needs to invest in devices that won't allow the police cars to start unless the officer blows to start it.

Yeah, because a minute percentage of IMPD officers getting arrested for DUI means we all need to be punished for it. How many innocent civilians did you murder while you were deployed overseas? Other military personnel did it, so you must have too.

 

[Trigger Time]

Yeah, because a minute percentage of IMPD officers getting arrested for DUI means we all need to be punished for it. How many innocent civilians did you murder while you were deployed overseas? Other military personnel did it, so you must have too.

It's how the world works. I know your a good cop. I know other good cops and know of other good cops. They don't deserve it, not do they deserve to be betrayed by their fellow officers but **** happens. Would you rather Impd regain the publics respect and trust or have it continue down this path?
im not your enemy, but something has to be done.
My wife's federal job required random drug and alcohol test. It's part of the job. Maybe that's an option? Something needs done to get rid of the officers tarnishing the badge and public trust.
this has been an issue for years. I'm not just being worked up by the media. It needs to be addressed better than Mr. Owensby's blowoff type statement

 

[Trigger Time]

Yeah, because a minute percentage of IMPD officers getting arrested for DUI means we all need to be punished for it. How many innocent civilians did you murder while you were deployed overseas? Other military personnel did it, so you must have too.

Also I know how it feels to be looked at like a pos for what others have done while serving.vets get it everyday just like cops. Everyone thinks you have PTSD automaticly, everyone wonders if your gonna get pissed and shoot up the place. Employers refuse to hire you because you've seen the elephant (although they make up another excuse not to hire you). I live it too Frank. It sucks. It's not right. But how do we change perception? That's the million dollar question. I think your department is letting you down just like my govt is letting our vets down

 

[ModernGunner]

I still would like to see every cop blow into a pbt or something similar before their shift starts. I understand some mark on driving to work. So I guess Indy needs to invest in devices that won't allow the police cars to start unless the officer blows to start it.

Well, as devil's advocate, since many on INGO constantly remark that 'police should get no special treatment' or 'cops are no different, should be treated the same', then I'd presume the quote to mean ALL workers; LEO, military, and civilian should be required to blow into a PBT or something similar before their shift starts? And ALL workers who drive should have the 'DUI ignition-blocker' on their vehicles, as well?

I won't even disagree with the idea, since it doesn't really affect me. Just asking for clarity's sake.

 

[remauto1187]

"a toast!"

 

[Denny347]

Makes sense on the draw and saves him refusal suspension time. What kills me about owi is that it is a crime of convenience and pride. I swore years ago I would never be too proud to get a ride home if I was even questionable; it just ain't worth it.

Sometimes the demons we are fighting blind us.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Denny - I believe that you may well be on to the cause of it. And you are wise for the actions that you have taken. I have never touched the stuff in my life. In my case, it stems partly for religious reasons - but also from seeing what it can do to people. I choose not to take the gamble. No matter what the stresses of my job/life/etc. Other jobs and situations cause similar stresses and result in above average incidence rates of people resorting to the sauce. I have a special disdain for OWI/DUI since it so often takes the life of innocents. And the person responsible , so often seems to walk away. The answer (true whether the person involved is a cop, a soldier, or whatever the heck is providing the stress) is to identify that the situation exists and get them to a better setup to either control it without the sauce or get rid of the source of the stress.

Unfortunately , many of the hasty judgments, mandatory sentences, and indeed union/contract/whatever rules tend to work against this outcome far too often.

I hope that the person in question finds help, if the cause is as you describe.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Also I know how it feels to be looked at like a pos for what others have done while serving.vets get it everyday just like cops. Everyone thinks you have PTSD automaticly, everyone wonders if your gonna get pissed and shoot up the place. Employers refuse to hire you because you've seen the elephant (although they make up another excuse not to hire you). I live it too Frank. It sucks. It's not right. But how do we change perception? That's the million dollar question. I think your department is letting you down just like my govt is letting our vets down

You could start swaying public perception by not talking **** as soon as something happens. Other than my post above I have never spoken ill of the military.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

It's how the world works. I know your a good cop. I know other good cops and know of other good cops. They don't deserve it, not do they deserve to be betrayed by their fellow officers but **** happens. Would you rather Impd regain the publics respect and trust or have it continue down this path?
im not your enemy, but something has to be done.
My wife's federal job required random drug and alcohol test. It's part of the job. Maybe that's an option? Something needs done to get rid of the officers tarnishing the badge and public trust.
this has been an issue for years. I'm not just being worked up by the media. It needs to be addressed better than Mr. Owensby's blowoff type statement

We do have random testing. Happens every single day.

 

[phylodog]

get rid of the source of the stress.

Now we're getting somewhere

 

[hoosierdoc]

Police and ministers, two professions who are supposed to be saints in a world of sinners. Problem is they are humans like the rest of us.

 

[Trigger Time]

You could start swaying public perception by not talking **** as soon as something happens. Other than my post above I have never spoken ill of the military.

Addressing an issue and trying to brainstorm ideas isn't talking ****. That's where you and I don't see eye to eye. I perceive you as thinking everyone is talking **** about your profession when instead some are just stating what they don't like or trying to figure what ways it could be done different.
if the military ****s up, discuss it. They work for us just like police, and politicians do. We have a duty to speak up. That's the way I feel. I don't believe in the old way of thinking where one doesn't speak I'll of a fellow soldier, republican, democrat, or cop. It breads mistrust and furthers sweeping problems under the rug and stinks of coverup. Just my perception.

 

[edporch]

He may be an IMPD Captain, but hey, he's just a person.

THE KEY is, that the system treats him EXACTLY like anybody else and his being a cop has ZERO relevance.
I suspect that won't happen.

 

[Trigger Time]

Well, as devil's advocate, since many on INGO constantly remark that 'police should get no special treatment' or 'cops are no different, should be treated the same', then I'd presume the quote to mean ALL workers; LEO, military, and civilian should be required to blow into a PBT or something similar before their shift starts? And ALL workers who drive should have the 'DUI ignition-blocker' on their vehicles, as well?

I won't even disagree with the idea, since it doesn't really affect me. Just asking for clarity's sake.

Yes I think those devices should be on every automobile civilian and public service. Driving is a privilege not a right. Also so is working. Just like while your at work you can't tell your boss to go **** himself (no freedom of speech), you should also submit to any test that ensure you are operating in a safe way and not a liability to the company. You have a right to refuse and seek other employment.
police interact with the public more than most any other profession, but the granted authority that we give them over us means they mUsT be held to a higher standard. People don't like being told by a cop what they can or can't do, but also most cops I've known or talked to REALLY don't like being forced to do anything. Sorry they don't have a say. Just like any other employee doesn't.

 

[Trigger Time]

He may be an IMPD Captain, but hey, he's just a person.

THE KEY is, that the system treats him EXACTLY like anybody else and his being a cop has ZERO relevance.
I suspect that won't happen.

I disagree. He must be held to a higher standard. That's why we don't let any Tom dick and Harry become cops. Once you've lost public trust your worthless in that position as I see it. Any monkey can be trained to do a cops job. The thing you can't teach is integrity and a sense of duty and honor. That's why I do have respect for the good cops because they don't compromise core values.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Yes I think those devices should be on every automobile civilian and public service.

uhm... No thanks. That's fantasy right there. You can't stop bad things from happening no matter how authoritarian you try to become.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Now we're getting somewhere

phylodog - the stress of the job isn't gonna be the part that changes. I suspect that you know that there's no getting around that. Cops are going to see the worst of the world , and ya can't stop that fact from happening. It sucks for the person involved, but there's a time when, just like the nuclear plant worker, you've been exposed to more than you can handle. I know an EMT that witnessed one too many drunk driving accidents as well. In his case, the breaking point was seeing a kid die because a drunk ran into the car he was riding in. He snapped and had to be restrained from beating the hell out of the guy. It was his last day in that career. If a person can't deal with their occupation without saucing it up and getting behind the wheel, (or without violating an oath to "first do no harm") then the occupation/source of the stress needs to leave their life. It sucks for the person involved - but it's the cold hard truth.

 

[Trigger Time]

phylodog - the stress of the job isn't gonna be the part that changes. I suspect that you know that there's no getting around that. Cops are going to see the worst of the world , and ya can't stop that fact from happening. It sucks for the person involved, but there's a time when, just like the nuclear plant worker, you've been exposed to more than you can handle. I know an EMT that witnessed one too many drunk driving accidents as well. In his case, the breaking point was seeing a kid die because a drunk ran into the car he was riding in. He snapped and had to be restrained from beating the hell out of the guy. It was his last day in that career. If a person can't deal with their occupation without saucing it up and getting behind the wheel, (or without violating an oath to "first do no harm") then the occupation/source of the stress needs to leave their life. It sucks for the person involved - but it's the cold hard truth.

Bingo. But getting someone to admit they no longer are fit for duty is not gonna happen often

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Addressing an issue and trying to brainstorm ideas isn't talking ****. That's where you and I don't see eye to eye. I perceive you as thinking everyone is talking **** about your profession when instead some are just stating what they don't like or trying to figure what ways it could be done different.
if the military ****s up, discuss it. They work for us just like police, and politicians do. We have a duty to speak up. That's the way I feel. I don't believe in the old way of thinking where one doesn't speak I'll of a fellow soldier, republican, democrat, or cop. It breads mistrust and furthers sweeping problems under the rug and stinks of coverup. Just my perception.

So if I chose not to discuss something cop-related on INGO I'm covering it up? Like doc said, you need to get out of your fantasy world. You and I might see eye-to-eye if you stopped making ridiculous suggestions for how things should be done.