And they wonder why we don't respect them ...

[machete]

We also have jury nullification built into the Indiana Constitution .
Section 19. Criminal cases--Jury determination

Section 19. In all criminal cases whatever, the jury shall have the right to determine the law and the facts.

Like it or not if someone does something like uses deadly force to protect property from a police sesiure , say just some lose dollars maybe 190 k of them . IF the jury agrees with the action .. free he goes .

there are at least a couple attorneys on here who were never taught that in law school --big surprise-- and think that a law being on the books is the end of the discussion...

no awareness of history,,,even history of law,,,whatsoever...

 

[rambone]

I stand for upholding the law.
If you don't like the law, petition the Lawmakers to have it changed.
That's been the preferred method for over two hundred years now in this country.
Of course it's a lot easier to be a Computer Commando and post volumes of drivel about the injustice done to the "innocent" DOPERS.

Good story. I asked you a question: What benefit comes from drug prohibition? I assume laws in our republic should have some reason for existing.

Enforcing the Law equals Tyranny??

When the law is tyrannical, then yes. When the law violates people's rights, then yes.

Gun confiscation. Property confiscation. Concentration camps. Slavery. Censorship. Illegal searches. Restricting travel.... Yes... there are plenty of times when enforcing the Law equals Tyranny.

 

[machete]

Good story. I asked you a question: What benefit comes from drug prohibition? I assume laws in our republic should have some reason for existing.




When the law is tyrannical, then yes. When the law violates people's rights, then yes.

Gun confiscation. Property confiscation. Concentration camps. Slavery. Censorship. Illegal searches. Restricting travel.... Yes... there are plenty of times when enforcing the Law equals Tyranny.

i dont get it... your posts are always the best to read... you talk about freedom,,,less government,,,less taxes,,,less p-oing off the world,,,less government spending,,,and i wonder whats the problem??? why do some gun owners not want these things??? why are some gun owners always on the opposite side of the freedom you show them??? is there anything thats better than freedom???

 

[UncleMike]

Well, I'm glad you think you know me so well. I don't smoke marijuana or crack, shoot heroin or meth and I don't snort cocaine. Once in a great while, I might drink a beer.

Obviously, history is not one of your better subjects. Prohibition lasted from 1919-1933. It accomplished nothing. The only thing it accomplished was allowing two-bit hoodlums to become crime king-pins. The "War on Drugs" has been raging for 40 years and we are no closer to winning it than the day we started.

If you look at the history of drug prohibition, you will find that many of the laws passed were really aimed at minorities. Southern politicians clamored for cocaine to be prohibited in the early 20th Century. One of their main reasons was because of "cocaine-crazed negros" raping white women. This was really just racism because there were virtually no incidents involving "cocaine-crazed negros" and white women.

When they wanted to ban marijuana in the 1930's, the reason was the only ones that used it were Negros, jazz musicians, Hispanics and Filipinos. The head of narcotics enforcement also said smoking marijuana caused white women to have sex with Negros. Gee, no racism involved in that decision!

Before the 20th Century, most Americans believed the government had no business telling them what they could or could not ingest.

I believe the use of drugs should be left to the individual, just like the use of tobacco or alcohol. Personally, I think the use of opium derivatives and coca derivatives are bad for you. Hallucinogens are bad for you as well. I put marijuana in the same class as alcohol. Casual use probably isn't all that bad, but chronic use is probably something to be avoided.

I believe, as an adult, I don't need the government protecting me from myself.

You can do whatever you want to yourself.
I could care less!!
I'm concerned with the scum and slimeballs that bring the ILLEGAL drugs into the country and sell them for obscene profits to idiots who are Hell bent on destroying themselves, their families, and the future generations of this nation.
Apparently few people here have actually seen the effects of chronic drug abuse.
I HAVE!!!
I've seen entire families destroyed by drugs.
Not because the drugs are illegal. But because the users become so fixated on getting their crap that they would sell their children for their next high.
It would be many times worse if those drugs were legal.

 

[machete]

I've seen entire families destroyed by drugs.
Not because the drugs are illegal. But because the users become so fixated on getting their crap that they would sell their children for their next high.
It would be many times worse if those drugs were legal.

were going broke and turning the country into a prison and police state to protect people from themselves...

but thats all bs... the real reason behind prohibition is money for the government,,,and lots of jobs for government workers... sure,,,there are some families torn apart by drugs...but these families are just poster children for big government... add all these families up and look at the cost...

NOW,,,look at the cost of the DRUG WAR!!! if we fired all the drug cops,,, drug judges,,,drug prosecutors,,,drug prison staff,,,drug probation officers,,,etc,,,and just gave the families free junk,,,wed still have a 4th amendment,,,and a free country,,,and wed be so far in the black... the cost of drug use doesnt even compare to the big government we use to keep drugs illegal...

those drugs are expensive because we make them illegal and heavily prosecute the trade... if we kept the drugs illegal,,,but never enforced the drug laws,,,wed make life for drug users and taxpayers so much better...

 

[hornadylnl]

Apparently few people here have actually seen the effects of chronic drug abuse.
I HAVE!!!
I've seen entire families destroyed by drugs.
Not because the drugs are illegal. But because the users become so fixated on getting their crap that they would sell their children for their next high.
It would be many times worse if those drugs were legal.

I call BS. You couldn't have seen these things because we passed laws to prevent it.

The fact that the things you've seen in spite of all the laws to the contrary is lost on you.

 

[Coydog]

I've seen families broken by: alcohol, gambling, pornography, religion, and the justice system. There are more broken families than there are intact.

Big Brother is not the answer. Family courts do more harm than good.

 

[UncleMike]

I call BS. You couldn't have seen these things because we passed laws to prevent it.

The fact that the things you've seen in spite of all the laws to the contrary is lost on you.

WTF ever!

 

[hornadylnl]

WTF ever!

Just like we eliminated drug us by banning them, I have an idea to save children! Try this on for size. We draw an imaginary circle around all schools and say "no guns inside this circle (unless you are one of the king's men of course)". That will prevent any more Columbines from happening. Oh you mean we've already tried that and it didn't work?

 

[Eddie]

To try to tie things back to the OP, here is what I see:

The government is so concerned about drugs that they have stopped charging suspected drug dealers with crimes. Instead, they take the profit from suspected drug sales and keep it for themselves, allowing the suspected drug dealers to go free.

Didn't we used to call that bribery? This is where our forfeiture laws are taking us. It is no longer important to put the drug dealer in jail, it is important to seize the suspected drug dealer's money. Making the arrest has become secondary to turning a profit.

 

[Duncan]

To try to tie things back to the OP, here is what I see:

The government is so concerned about drugs that they have stopped charging suspected drug dealers with crimes. Instead, they take the profit from suspected drug sales and keep it for themselves, allowing the suspected drug dealers to go free.

Didn't we used to call that bribery? This is where our forfeiture laws are taking us. It is no longer important to put the drug dealer in jail, it is important to seize the suspected drug dealer's money. Making the arrest has become secondary to turning a profit.

I started the thread if it gets off track some in the vein it has I say good .
This way you can see who the true patriots to liberty are and who are Liberty's enemies .
Keep talking . When this comes apart at the seams guys know each other on here in real life .
When push comes to shove .. people will demand an accounting for what you have said and what you believe ... liberty will win out ... history just shows that it requires both blood and treasure .
Thanks
Duncan

 

[Duncan]

You can do whatever you want to yourself.
I could care less!!
I'm concerned with the scum and slimeballs that bring the ILLEGAL drugs into the country and sell them for obscene profits to idiots who are Hell bent on destroying themselves, their families, and the future generations of this nation.
Apparently few people here have actually seen the effects of chronic drug abuse.
I HAVE!!!
I've seen entire families destroyed by drugs.
Not because the drugs are illegal. But because the users become so fixated on getting their crap that they would sell their children for their next high.
It would be many times worse if those drugs were legal.

The only reason they are against the law is because they are illegal .
I don't know you and I am guessing that in some way you have a direct profit motive to keep some drugs illegal . A government job . Now I'm just guessing and I can be wrong .. no need to answer .. I'm just thinking out loud here .

We have be involved with a War on Drugs since 1914 with the Harrison Narcotics TAX Act .

Guys that is almost 100 YEARS .
America loves drugs .. all kinds .
At some point you have to face facts as to the dynamics of the free market system .. and I give you that the " drug trade " is not a free market because the government controls it - making some a black market commodity .

Yes the EFFECT of drugs has and does cause harm to people and family structure .

But that is not the cause .
The cause is the attitude / character of the user , consumer .

Drugs like all other things available to man do nothing .
It is man's choices that cause harm and evil .

If we are to worrie about things that cause harm and control or out law them . Why is money legal ?
Or do we dispute want Jesus told us .

" The LOVE of money is the root of all evil . "
Thanks
Duncan

PS I forgot. Obscene Profits in illegal drugs .
Many drugs are illegal unless you get an exemption to own and consume them . I.E. a prescription .
Merk , Lilly , Phizer , Bayer .. it could be said that they make Obscene profits from illegal drugs .. they do make big profits any way you look at it .. of course they are licensed and controlled buy the government .

" It would be many times worse if those drugs were legal."


Uhh sorry I think that Portugal proved that wrong ...

Drug Decriminalization in Portugal: Lessons for Creating Fair and Successful Drug Policies | Glenn Greenwald | Cato Institute: White Paper
Drug Decriminalization in Portugal | Cato Institute: Policy Forum

in the five years ....possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined ... rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped,

Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME

 

[serpicostraight]

im sure there are some people that do let drugs as well as alchohol and all types of other vices destroy thier life. but i spent 8 years in europe and many weekends in amsterdam where drugs are legal and i never seen any robberies rapes or murders by those who were high. most everybody i met over there just wanted to get a buzz and be mellow.

 

[mrjarrell]

The story I read said that the money had been turned over to homeland security.

That said, that doesn't take the city off the hook. They apparently illegally seized it and they need to pay up whether they still have it or not. If they want to get it back from the feds, they can bring an action.

Taking stuff without sufficient legal grounds is bad enough. Giving that stuff to someone else is just stupid.

Joe

Wonder if you could charge everyone who had possession of the funds with receipt of stolen property? I'd love to see the prisons overflowing with these people. THAT would be justice.

 

[jbombelli]

I've said many times that most people do not really believe in liberty. They'd be happy with it if they were the only ones that had it, but the fact that other people would have it scares them. They will sacrifice every liberty they have that someone else might abuse. I consider those people complete cowards, traitors to the principles upon which this nation was founded, and willing slaves to the state.

 

[Beau]

Most people can't see past their bubble of current conditions. They look around and see the problems we are having in spite of the laws that may be in place to try and prevent those problems. When someone says we need to take away those laws that person thinks that things will automatically get worse, no matter what. They can't even comprehend that the "laws" may be part of the problem.

 

[MinuteMan47]

You can do whatever you want to yourself.
I could care less!!

I'm concerned with the scum and slimeballs that bring the ILLEGAL drugs into the country and sell them for obscene profits to idiots who are Hell bent on destroying themselves, their families, and the future generations of this nation.
Apparently few people here have actually seen the effects of chronic drug abuse.
I HAVE!!!
I've seen entire families destroyed by drugs.
Not because the drugs are illegal. But because the users become so fixated on getting their crap that they would sell their children for their next high.
It would be many times worse if those drugs were legal.

It seems you do care what other people are doing to THEMSELVES. Your statements actually seem to contradict themselves.

You stated that you don't care what people do to themselves. Yet, you are concerned with "slimeballs" selling drugs and "destroying themselves, their families, and the future generations of this nation"

hmmmm.....good point.