And the hits just keep coming.....

[Route 45]

That's because it's just saving 7% ... increase that dramatically, and watch the unintended consequences.

Nah. Replace the overly complicated and unnecessary income tax scheme with a national sales tax, and it'll wash out even. Manufacturers who want to sell their products will adjust prices accordingly. And taxing consumption rather than productivity is far better for the nation.

A few sniveling bean counters may lose their jobs, but that's a risk I'm willing to take.

 

[churchmouse]

Nah. Replace the overly complicated and unnecessary income tax scheme with a national sales tax, and it'll wash out even. Manufacturers who want to sell their products will adjust prices accordingly. And taxing consumption rather than productivity is far better for the nation.

A few sniveling bean counters may lose their jobs, but that's a risk I'm willing to take.

Thats a risk I would prefer.
Have we noticed how the thread bean counter has dance around the obvious to press his views. Views that are most obviously form a removed and conditioned place.

Again, I could give 2 craps what any of us do or how many tax returns you have done for folks. Good for you and all of that.
You need to spend half an hour with my Tax guy. Your brain would reset, eject your lifes views and possibly need therapy.

But I digress.

 

[Route 45]

It's hard to convince someone of something when their livelihood depends on them not understanding it.

 

[churchmouse]

It's hard to convince someone of something when their livelihood depends on them not understanding it.

I would love to take him on a grand tour of a couple of areas in west indy. There has got to be at least 100 auto repair/paint and body/used car lots and most likely more than that. I am sure through people I know and some I deal with that this is a cash business. Nail/eyelash/beauty shops number in the near same and yup....cash. To not see/acknowledge and go as for as to reject it is ridiculous. Its not just Jetta. He is not the 'poster child. There are thousands just like him that have no idea what that world is like. So attempts to inform fall on deaf ears as was proven in this thread as he rejected me and danced right passed it.
It is not solely Hispanics that operate this way either.

 

[BugI02]

Enhanced (read: National) sales tax is inherently regressive, hitting the bottom of the socio-economic ladder the hardest because they have little flexibility on their spending, most of which is for subsistence

I could be convinced if there were some way to exempt those whose income is below a certain level, or the first 'x' dollars of spending. Otherwise 10% more tax on most things you buy is a much bigger hit to those whose taxable purchases make up 1/3 of their total income vs someone for which it is 1/30 of their income

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

So what happens when the Dems run out of other peoples money?

 

[BugI02]

So what happens when the Dems run out of other peoples money?

They either exert full military/paramilitary control of the country or the next thing they run out of is slack in the rope

 

[Route 45]

Enhanced (read: National) sales tax is inherently regressive, hitting the bottom of the socio-economic ladder the hardest because they have little flexibility on their spending, most of which is for subsistence

I could be convinced if there were some way to exempt those whose income is below a certain level, or the first 'x' dollars of spending. Otherwise 10% more tax on most things you buy is a much bigger hit to those whose taxable purchases make up 1/3 of their total income vs someone for which it is 1/30 of their income

That is a concern that I share. Groceries are already exempted for state sales tax, so we see the issue being addressed on a state level. Would need at least some kind of an exemption for basic necessities. Everything else is a "want" and not a "need," and it would be up to the individual to determine whether a purchase was a good value decision.

 

[BugI02]

I was also thinking about how, no matter how much you make, the first 'x' dollars of income are exempted from income tax, and thinking a similar arrangement would be desireable for the sales tax but don't quite know how to pull that off

 

[JettaKnight]

It's hard to convince someone of something when their livelihood depends on them not understanding it.

Livelihood?

I'm an electrical engineer. I do taxes for fun and altruistic reasons.

 

[jwamplerusa]

Okay, I was going to stay out of this even though this particular taxation issue is one of my favorites. But it's the end of the day, and I wanted to delay going to the gym so...

I have been a proponent for a constitutional amendment for a couple of decades now which stipulates that the federal government may only obtain revenue by one means, and may only obtain that revenue from citizens. The taxation must be equal by percentage applied to each citizen. It would be permissible to set a threshold below which taxation was not required. Finally the amendment would have a balanced budget clause. Some reasonably harsh formula whereby expenditures greater than receipts over a couple of years would invalidate the ability for any legislator who had voted for the budget to run for office again.

By the above paragraph, I mean that the federal government could not institute a fee, excise tax or any other means than the single means they choose to raise revenue. Further non-citizens, whether that be a business a nonprofit or a non-citizen would not be subject to taxation. At the end of the day only the end producers generate value and thus recover money. Businesses are an intermediary they are not citizens and they should not be interacting with the government, and certainly not in a way that becomes symbiotic as it has with the income tax system as it is currently structured.

In my fantasy constitutional amendment, the government would likely pick some form of income tax. The tax would have a threshold below which citizens would not be taxed. The tax would be levied either quarterly or annually and would have to be paid by the individual citizen.

Could this system be gamed? Absolutely, but I believe it would be both more equitable and would reduce the influence of non-citizens within our political process. Just as importantly I believe it would force the American people to viscerally recognize their expenditures. That recognition would cause a reset in our federal government budgetary process. Proposing deficit spending would quickly become a non-starter.

As it has been said, The problem with a national sales tax is it becomes punitive on the lower end of the income scale. The only way you can set a threshold is really through a rebate system, which requires the lowest end of the socioeconomic ladder to have the funds to begin with.

The single flat tax, with a threshold, concept really focuses on equality. Equality of responsibility for the nation's funding. It leaves open however the option for unequal distribution which is intentional. Obviously the nation can choose to spend those funds to help those at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, however the connection between that help and those who are funding it becomes much more tangible and controlled.

And with that little missive, I can absolutely guarantee I will see nothing like this in my lifetime. Hopefully in the United States of America 2.0 they will learn from our mistakes and separate non-citizens from politicians from the very beginning.

 

[BugI02]

Livelihood?

I'm an electrical engineer. I do taxes for fun and altruistic reasons.

I always knew you were ... different













Hola, Jetta

 

[BugI02]

As far as taxation reform fantasies go, I'd like to see a place on the tax return forms with perhaps 20 or more checkboxes delineating areas of permissible government spending. Tax payers would have to select at least 1/3 but could select any number above that threshold up to all of them. That taxpayer's taxes could only be spent toward the indicated areas of expenditure

It would then be incumbent on government to make the case for any given expenditure prior to tax time or see some areas lacking support dry up from a funds available standpoint

 

[BigRed]

They either exert full military/paramilitary control of the country or the next thing they run out of is slack in the rope

I would not shed a tear if they were swinging from the ends of ropes.

 

[BigRed]

Yes, thank you Biden voters. Thank you for voting for a bunch of communists, who's written platform is filled with redistributionists, confiscatory, and communist policies and ideals.

So for those of you who voted for Biden, how did you think all of the stuff was going to be paid for? Are you really so foolish to believe that " someone else " is going to pay for everything? If you're a reasonably rational adult that has been in this country more than 10 years you surely had to understand that the "someone else" was going to be you.

$6 to $8 a gallon gas, inflation rising to Jimmy Carter levels at least, massive increases in taxes, fees, and any other confiscatory methods the communist can devise, devaluation of the currency, and gutting of the military. That is what I have to look forward to as I creep toward what should have been retirement. Yeah, thank you to all those who voted for the communists (AKA Democrats).

</Rant>

Still waiting to hear from the clowns.

 

[1nderbeard]

Problem with the "Flat sales tax of 11-17 percent" is multiple.
First - you're already paying sales tax in most states of 5%-10%. Combined that's a tax on sales of 25%. Sorry that's insane. Our tax rate system is actually impressive. The bottom pay 10%-15%. Most effective tax rates are well below 20%. Second - The sales tax also hurst lower income people more than higher, because lower income are paying more % of their dispoable income than the wealthy (regressive taxes-look it up).
Third don't act like the IRS won't exist with this tax system. State departments of revenue exist for only the state sales taxes. You would still have some government reporting agency to collect the money, and (of course) audit all the businesses.

Plus - all the other problems with it mentioned above.


The problem, as it has always been, is spending. Go back to 1940's spending and we could get back to the one page 1940s tax return. Since that will never happen, better find a good CPA who can legally reduce your tax rate and make you look poor....

 

[BigRed]

We do NOT have a taxing problem.

We have a spending problem.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Still waiting to hear from the clowns.

I do give Kut props for at least sticking around. One in particular has been conspicuously absent though.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

We do NOT have a taxing problem.

We have a spending problem.

 

[BigRed]

From today's AP release:

"Taking form after months of negotiations, Biden’s emerging bill would still be among the most sweeping of its kind in a generation, modeled on New Deal and Great Society programs."

Sure....let's model off of the "New Deal" and the "Great Society"....because those worked so well.

These idiots are out of control