An alternate look at handgun stopping power

[crispy]

He said no such thing. He said that since over half of the 9mm data was ball ammo, that may have skewed the 9mm numbers. The fact that the various calibers showed similar results was not skewed at all.

Again, where is YOUR study?

 

[indymike]

Excellent article. Thanks for posting the link. Something was addressed in this article that I always had a hunch about when shooting different guns at the range and practicing self defense drills. I always had a hunch that the trigger travel and reset lengths were incredibly important and the data and conclusions of this article support that.

I noticed that with my S&W 3rd generation guns, that have an extremely short trigger reset and virtually no travel in the single action trigger pull, I could get more rounds out and on target in a much shorter time compared to other guns I shot.

I especially had a hard time justifying the carry of double action only pocket guns. I noticed that repeat shots with those types of guns were slow enough that most of the rounds in the magazine would be useless as I would barely be able to get off two decent shots before the threat situation ends. The trigger travel lengths and insane reset lengths were simply too much.

Now whenever I shop for a gun, the first thing I check is the trigger reset length and the follow up shot travel length. I always will want a double action first pull for safety reasons so I'm pretty limited to hammer guns like Sig, CZ, S&W, H&K, etc. But that second single action reset and pull is the number one priority when deciding on a purchase IMVHO.

 

[Jeremy1066]

crispy, did you even read the article? "I also believe the data for the .25, .32 and .44 magnum should be viewed with suspicion. I simply don't have enough data (in comparison to the other calibers) to draw an accurate comparison. I reported the data I have, but I really don't believe that a .32 ACP incapacitates people at a higher rate than the .45 ACP!" Come on man. He is telling you to discount half of his study group right there, including the .44 magnum. What I really want to know is, why are you so irrate at people that discount his findings just like he suggests doing? Is the article interesting? Very. Is his article the "Holy Grail" of handgun caliber ballistics? Hardly. If you are so bent on defending this study, I would expect that you have already traded all of your handguns in for .32 ACP guns, because as his study reveals, the .32 ACP has the highest "one shot" incapacitation percentage of all hangun calibers he studied. So did you?? Oh, one last question,...... Where's your study?

 

[crispy]

What I really want to know is, why are you so irrate at people that discount his findings just like he suggests doing?

He suggests no such thing.

 

[Jeremy1066]

"I really don't believe that a .32 ACP incapacitates people at a higher rate than the .45 ACP!" .... that's a quote (which means he wrote it)

 

[ViperJock]

I think the most significant data presented is the graph of "failure to incapacitate." There are a few major variables that weren't controlled in this chart review. Mainly, the accuracy of the shooter, distance of the shooter, and the type of ammuntion used.

Furthermore, there are several reasons a "shootee" might cease the attack. Dead, severely wounded, pain, sudden burst of logical thought activity.

Finally, in the issue of self defense, one cannot discount the number of rounds available in the magazine.

A mob style execution with a .22 in the back of the head will have a higher kill rate than a .45 in a shootout from 25 yards. That doesn't mean at 10 yards, I'd prefer to have a .22 for a higher incidence of incapacitation. It is a totally different scenario.

IMHO, the best caliber is the one that you have enough of and can shoot fastest and straightest.

If you have ever seen ballistic testing of different calibers on the same target it is hard to discount the "knockdown" power of the higher caliber. Interestingly, there is no data that shows monitoring blood oxygen saturation of patients undergoing surgery improves outcomes, yet most people would probably agree that they would rather play it safe and use the monitor. Just a thought.

 

[Drakkule]

I thought it was a good read. I have always said rounds on target is the best way to stop an aggressor, also unless it is a very personal attack, any shot going towards them will most likely stop the aggression, and cause the attacker to flee. Also i carry a double action only pistol, and in the heat of the moment, i don't think i will notice a long trigger pull, or ever a hard trigger pull. Once the adrenaline starts pumping, it will all be to easy of a trigger pull. I practice quick draw and double tap so it will be second nature if i ever have to defend myself, or my family.

 

[theoko]

Wow I guess no one put it up yet but I've seen this site a few times and I think it's quite accurate.
Selection of best ammunition for a defensive handgun
In it the Holy Trinity (9mm, .40 s&w, and .45 acp) all are in the 90% or better range for one shot stops for the best ammo available for each caliber.

 

[kingnereli]

Wow I guess no one put it up yet but I've seen this site a few times and I think it's quite accurate.
Selection of best ammunition for a defensive handgun
In it the Holy Trinity (9mm, .40 s&w, and .45 acp) all are in the 90% or better range for one shot stops for the best ammo available for each caliber.

Did anyone notice the "Self Defense Rating" this site gives .45acp?

 

[cschwanz]

First rule in a gunfight: Bring a gun! Anything is better than nothing.

I don't believe in a magic bullet/caliber and the "stopping power" talk kinda bugs me. Im not looking to knock someone backwards. Im looking to end a threat to my life should one arise. This is where shot placement comes into play. A couple rounds to the center of your chest is going to hurt and hurt bad, I dont care if its a .38spl or a 45ACP.

That being said I tend to fall into the camp of "If you're going to make a hole, might as well make it a big one"

 

[SHEEPdOHdoubleG]

Great article. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Superj]

Good reading. Thanks for posting the link

 

[theoko]

Did anyone notice the "Self Defense Rating" this site gives .45acp?

What? It says it is one of the best at 94%. The other one that is in the same category is .40 at 96% one stop shots.

 

[Birdstrike]

"If you're going to make a hole, might as well make it a big one"

+1

 

[pitbull88]

Does anybody know whether this study controls for experience of the shooter? An inexpereinced shooter might be able to shoot a .22 more accurately than a .45. But comparing equally experienced shooters, would there still be little difference in knockdown between calibers?

 

[buford t justice]

I don't think the study had any controls,it appeared to be a charting of real world situations
where the incidents could occur at any time or place with any handgun and any level of skill
on the part of victim.

 

[thompal]

I don't think the study had any controls,it appeared to be a charting of real world situations
where the incidents could occur at any time or place with any handgun and any level of skill
on the part of victim.

Or any consideration of the physical build of the bullet recipient. I suspect someone 5'4" and 120lbs will show different results than someone 6'2" who weighs 250lbs, given the exact same shot placement, caliber, and bullet type.

 

[Wa22ioR]

For the most part, I agree with the theory and posts of the OP. It is definitely all about shot placement. Handguns are all horrible at incapacitation shots. Unless one strikes the CNS or causes extreme blood loss, then all bullets are just that. Bullets of different size. Training with something that is smaller caliber and becoming extremely proficient with it with more rounds on target, is much better than a guy shooting a .50 AE or .50 GI and cannot control or hit accurately what he is shooting at. Also, training under stress is the ticket. Not relaxed controlled shooting as in a normal everyday gun range.

However, if I could become proficient in either one. A .32ACP or .45ACP, it iwll be the .45ACP any and every time. Much more proven in combat, even with FMJ, and if there isn't a direct CNS incapacitation, I will take that almost guaranteed 1/2" bleed hole.

 

[warhawk77]

That is very cool info. Lots of info nice work

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I will always stand by that skill is much more important then caliber. I do not care if you carry a .44 mag, if you can not place your shots, then you now have a blunt force object. Marksmanship, practice, practice, and practice. Carry modern day defensive ammunition.