American Troops won't stay in Iraq after January

[rambone]

Hmmm. I haven't seen much mention of how many DoD civilians and contractor employees we're sending to both Iraq and Afghanistan.

I read recently that it was about a 1:1 ratio, contractors to enlisted.

If I were a betting man, I would be willing to place a Wager that in Iraq it is closer to 5:1. Contractors to Enlisted. And in Afghanistan I would be willing to drop a safe bet of 2:1...

Now that you mention that Jeremy, I know my answer was wrong. The stat I read applied to the entire world, which itself is remarkably high. We pay one contractor for every single enlisted, worldwide. In Afghanistan and Iraq they are much more concentrated.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...0-pentagon_under_fire_over_war_contracts.html

The US military increasingly has turned to private companies over the past decade, with the contractor workforce at times surpassing 260,000 people -- a roughly one-to-one ratio with troops deployed.

 

[ultraspec]

It's all hinging on whether the Iraqis will allow the US troops to be granted immunity for their actions. Frankly, I hope the Iraqis stand their ground. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other country where US military personnel have immunity for committing crimes or atrocities. If one of them does something in Iraq that would put them before an Iraqi court then that should be the norm, as it is in other countries. If the US can't accept that then they should pull all the troops out, (which they should be doing anyway).

Sounds like you have never served. I would think that anyone who HAS served would understand why its best to best judged by a fair and equal ssytem of justice Ie UCMJ not by local politics or local beliefs.

 

[flatlander]

It looks like I left just in time.
We will have some troops there after Dec. There won't be many but there will be some. They can move the troops out that quick. The majority of the equipment is being turned over to the Iraqis lock stock and barrel.
Rambone- Great idea to do away with contractors. Keep in mind the jobs they do will need to be done by the.mil folks. Laundry, food, basic life support, maintenence, plumbing, carpentry, electrical, HVAC etc. I'm sure it will be no problem for you to make the commitment to train, clothe, house, supply benefits to all those peolpe for the next 3 years. At a minimum. Versus contractors who are already trained, bring their own clothing and pay their own insurance etc and can be fired with no benefits when they are no longer needed.
Mr. Jarrell- You don't seem to realize that in some of these wonderful garden spots their idea of right and wrong and the punishment they met out is a wee bit different than here. Saw a guy go to a jail for 2 months because a local SAID he dropped the "f" bomb. Yeah, there's some real fair justice for you.
People should stick to commenting on topics they have first hand experience dealing with. It is better to be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.



Bob

 

[mrjarrell]

If you're a foreigner in America and you commit a crime you face the American system. If you're an American in a foreign country and you commit a crime there, then you face theirs. American soldiers should be no different than the civilian populace when it comes to this. You commit a crime in that country then you should face that countries justice system, no matter how regressive it might be. There've been cases in Japan and Korea where American military personnel have raped and robbed and been turned over for prosecution to the locals. Soldiers in Iraq should be treated no differently. They should not be placed above the law.

 

[flatlander]

That's all well and noble on the big stuff. What about spitting on the sidewalk? Smoking in public? Traffic offenses? Eating or drinking during daylight hours during a religious observation? Have you been to many 3rd worls countries? Many things you wouldn't even think about may carry pretty heavy penalties.

Bob

 

[mrjarrell]

That's all well and noble on the big stuff. What about spitting on the sidewalk? Smoking in public? Traffic offenses? Eating or drinking during daylight hours during a religious observation? Have you been to many 3rd worls countries? Many things you wouldn't even think about may carry pretty heavy penalties.

Bob

I've been to and lived in a few 3rd world countries. Just like the US, ignorance of the law is no excuse. If you can look up the carry laws from state to state, it's no great deal to find out about the laws of your host country. Hell, contact the State Department or the local embassy and they'll get you the info you need. Learn the local laws and live under them or move out. There should be no special privileges for American soldiers anywhere. Contrary to popular opinion we're not Rome.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

I've been to and lived in a few 3rd world countries. Just like the US, ignorance of the law is no excuse. If you can look up the carry laws from state to state, it's no great deal to find out about the laws of your host country. Hell, contact the State Department or the local embassy and they'll get you the info you need. Learn the local laws and live under them or move out. There should be no special privileges for American soldiers anywhere. Contrary to popular opinion we're not Rome.

And contrary to popular opinion, American Soldiers are not committing war crimes and atrocities all around the world. When a crime is committed, the military does investigate and send those to jail who are convicted. We don't need our soldiers going to jail because they look at someone's woman wrong, or our female soldiers not wearing veils.


I can't find the reference but i remember reading somewhere that most contractors are foreigners, and the US has been using them since the Revolutionary war. A cook is considered a private contractor. I know a guy who is heading to Afghanistan as a civilian private contractor; he will be teaching units there how to maintain and use some model of MRAP. Not all private contractors are Black Water types. Most are like the truck drivers that deliver supplies on the conveys through Pakistan.

 

[rambone]

Rambone- Great idea to do away with contractors. Keep in mind the jobs they do will need to be done by the.mil folks. Laundry, food, basic life support, maintenence, plumbing, carpentry, electrical, HVAC etc. I'm sure it will be no problem for you to make the commitment to train, clothe, house, supply benefits to all those peolpe for the next 3 years. At a minimum. Versus contractors who are already trained, bring their own clothing and pay their own insurance etc and can be fired with no benefits when they are no longer needed.

You read quite a bit into me answering someone's questions and posting a statistic.

We can shrink the contractor force proportionately to the overseas military.

 

[jeremy]

If you're a foreigner in America and you commit a crime you face the American system. If you're an American in a foreign country and you commit a crime there, then you face theirs.

For the most part you are correct, in regards to Civilians...

However, Foreign Military Personal around the World fall into a different category than that of the Civilian. Even here in the States it gets very complicated when you start dealing with Legal Statuses of Foreign Soldiers and who can and cannot charge and decide on their crimes.

American soldiers should be no different than the civilian populace when it comes to this. You commit a crime in that country then you should face that countries justice system, no matter how regressive it might be. There've been cases in Japan and Korea where American military personnel have raped and robbed and been turned over for prosecution to the locals. Soldiers in Iraq should be treated no differently.

It all depends on the SOFA for each and every Country that the Service Member is in. Each one varies greatly on the Policing Powers of the Locals in Regards to the Service Members.

They should not be placed above the law.

I assure you that We are not above the Laws. As a Matter of Fact I have far more Laws, Treaties, Accords, Conventions, International Agreements, Regulations, and Rules to follow and Live by than any Civilian ever will...

 

[insanemonkey]

I can not agree with charging troops and putting them through foreign courts. We should keep it internal when crimes are committed. Forcing our military to follow some off the wall law that who ever is in charge at the time comes up with. Would make them ineffective and put them at greater risk then they need to be.

 

[jeremy]

I've been to and lived in a few 3rd world countries. Just like the US, ignorance of the law is no excuse. If you can look up the carry laws from state to state, it's no great deal to find out about the laws of your host country. Hell, contact the State Department or the local embassy and they'll get you the info you need.

Congrats for traveling the World...

Totally different than Going to a Country that you are engaged in Combat with or maybe fighting part of the Populace at the bequest of that Country...

Learn the local laws and live under them or move out. There should be no special privileges for American soldiers anywhere. Contrary to popular opinion we're not Rome.

Once again. The Military does not go to places that Tame nor Civilized for a Reason. We are not in the Business of spreading Flowers and Rainbows, nor do we go about to Preach the Word to anyone. We go places to Hurt People and Destroy Stuff. That is what the Military does. We are operating in Accordance within International Laws and the UCMJ when We are in a CZ. Don't like what We do, then Elect People to the Hill that will change it. The POTUS, Congress, State Department are the ones who Publish the Rules that the Military observes....

It would be much easier if the US was Rome...