Alito & Obama:

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  • Hoosier8

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    The Alito / Obama moment is one of the biggest stories to come out of the STOTU Address last night.

    In researching this story almost 99% of the 1000 articles out there simply say they had a "showdown" without actually addressing the issue at hand whatsoever. These articles only help to inflame both sides and further the partisanship and divide. Way to go media.

    So who is correct here?

    Alito:
    Those who say Alito is right sight the following:
    [FONT=times new roman,times]The Court held that 2 U.S.C. Section 441a, which prohibits all corporate political spending, is unconstitutional. Foreign nationals, specifically defined to include foreign corporations, are prohibiting from making "a contribution or donation of money or any thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State or local election" under 2 U.S.C. Section 441e, which was not at issue in the case. Foreign corporations are also prohibited, under 2 U.S.C. 441e, from making any contribution or donation to any committee of any political party, and they prohibited from making any "expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication... ." [/FONT]


    Obama:
    Those who say Obama is right sight the following:
    During arguments for Citizens United, Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and John Paul Stevens asked whether foreign interests would be able to funnel money into American elections through their U.S. subsidiaries if the court struck down 441b. One of the attorneys for Citizens United replied, “I would not rule that out.”


    In its Opinion, the Court side-stepped the issue and refused to make a ruling on whether foreign corporations would be able to influence our political process by funneling money through US subsidiaries. Instead, the Court stated that there is no need to answer the question, and referred to the fact that 2 U.S.C 441(e) bans contributions and expenditures by foreign nationals.



    Conclusion:
    So, it appears that Alito is saying he is correct because there is a law on the books that prohibits Foreign nationals and corporations from donating to our political process.

    But, the problem is that there is a loophole for Foreign corporations to funnel money in via US Subsidiaries and through companies that are 51% American shareholders and 49% Foreign shareholders.

    Bottom line is there IS a loophole! This is a sticky situation, but the loophole needs closed.

    Last time we discussed this, the consensus seemed to be that most people here didn't mind Foreign corporations funding elections and that you didn't mind Hugo Chavez funding a candidate via CITGO because (1) he does business in America (2) It was his right to influence his interests and (3) it is the American way.


    So what's your take? And, please, spare me the "Obama Sucks" responses and just stick to the facts of the case.

    Of course Alito was right because this regulation was not overturned by the current decision as Obama alluded to. In fact, as you state, it was not addressed by the recent decision because it was not what was under consideration.

    The current decision was whether McCain/Feingold from 2002 was constitutional, and it was decided that due to it's nature, it would put a chill factor on free speech.

    So constantly alluding to a regulation that was not even under consideration is a red herring.

    Now to your question of whether an American owned company or a foreign owned company can donate to campaigns where foreign owned companies are banned, then if the definition making a company American owned is 51% is still law and still on the books, then it is still "legal", no matter how much ownership is foreign. If you are going to start defining only public companies that have no foreign ownership can contribute, which in most cases is stock ownership, you will by that reasoning, ban almost all publicly owned companies from being able to donate under the rules of 441, as stock ownership is open for any investor. That would also mean that you would have to determine if there is any foreign ownership of any mutual fund that may have a percentage of the portfolio of a company.

    There is a reason for the 51% ownership is that the 51% ownership has the controlling interest; thereby, making any public company that is 51% American owned and still controlled by American interests.
     

    antsi

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    I believe the "foreign companies" issue is a pure red herring thrown up by the Left. Since when are liberals concerned about "foreign?" They embrace internationalism and the UN. They want our Supreme Court to consider foreign laws as precedent (especially European countries). They admire the socialist authoritarian states of Europe and want us to be more like them. Their candidates have historically had much more foreign support - and in fact, they continually cite foreign popularity as an important goal of a president. They're delighted that Obama was, intially at least, more popular in Europe and the Middle East than the Evil One (Bush).

    Foreign corporations, particularly most Asian and European ones, are much more socialized and intertwined with government control than ours are. This is the model that the Left wants for our corporations.

    So, now suddenly Lefties are all concerned about the influence of foreign corporations in US elections?

    I call BS.

    This reminds me of the Indy Red Star editorial, where they defended their LTCH database on the basis that it would uncover discrimination of the ISP were denying gun rights to certain ethnic groups. Denying gun rights? These are the same people who don't believe in gun rights, and want gun rights stamped out. When they come over all concerned that the ISP is denying people's gun rights, I get suspicious.

    Same thing with the "foreign corporations" boogeyman.
     

    Phil502

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    I believe the "foreign companies" issue is a pure red herring thrown up by the Left. Since when are liberals concerned about "foreign?" They embrace internationalism and the UN. They want our Supreme Court to consider foreign laws as precedent (especially European countries). They admire the socialist authoritarian states of Europe and want us to be more like them. Their candidates have historically had much more foreign support - and in fact, they continually cite foreign popularity as an important goal of a president. They're delighted that Obama was, intially at least, more popular in Europe and the Middle East than the Evil One (Bush).

    Foreign corporations, particularly most Asian and European ones, are much more socialized and intertwined with government control than ours are. This is the model that the Left wants for our corporations.

    So, now suddenly Lefties are all concerned about the influence of foreign corporations in US elections?

    I call BS.

    This reminds me of the Indy Red Star editorial, where they defended their LTCH database on the basis that it would uncover discrimination of the ISP were denying gun rights to certain ethnic groups. Denying gun rights? These are the same people who don't believe in gun rights, and want gun rights stamped out. When they come over all concerned that the ISP is denying people's gun rights, I get suspicious.

    Same thing with the "foreign corporations" boogeyman.

    Yes I think thats accurate, the NRA was affected by Mccain/Fiengold in regards to "campaining" 2 months before an election, it was all BS. Now it is free to speak openly. This is more then likely Obama's beef. He just used a lie and slight of hand to trick the sheep. All during a SOTU address, really makes it special, a direct lie. Heres what the NRA says:

    A Free Speech Victory

    For years, the elitists in this country have tried to isolate gun owners at election time. They pushed for laws that silenced us while they remained able to communicate. For years, the NRA has fought these laws, and fought for our right to speak up and speak out about candidates during an election. We've said for years that the right to free speech isn't just limited to politicians and big media conglomerates, and now we've been vindicated.

    In a big victory for gun owners, and a big defeat for those media elites, the Supreme Court has ruled that the NRA and other organizations can't be muzzled during elections, and you can be sure that the largest and loudest voice for gun owners will not be silent this year. Elites like Michael Bloomberg and George Soros may have billions of dollars at their disposal, but NRA members have something that's even stronger: each other. Speaking together, NRA members can be heard from sea to shining sea, in every district where an anti-gun candidate threatens your Second Amendment rights, in every election where a defender of freedom is seeking office.

    2010 will be a vitally important election year, and together we can make a difference. I hope you'll do your part in making our voice as loud as possible by donating what you can to the National Rifle Association.
     

    BloodEclipse

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    In the trenches for liberty!
    So how does any of this prevent "outside interests" from donating to a candidate using Visa gift cards?
    Anyone remember all the money the obama campaign was getting from website donations that were tied to these gift cards?
     

    BloodEclipse

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    Thanks, BE. I read the link and wasn't aware of that particular portion of what was said during the campaign. I knew there were accusations of wrongdoing made, just not those listed in the link. :yesway:

    Here is a new article:

    at-logo.gif

    Return to the Article

    January 29, 2010
    Foreign contributions to Obama campaign should be investigated

    Clarice Feldman

    One of the oft remarked upon ironies of Obama's untoward attack on the Supreme Court ruling declaring unconstitutional the foreclosing of corporate and union contributions to political campaigns was his unwarranted claim that the decision opened up the floodgates for foreign contributions to US political campaigns.It doesn't. The section banning foreign contributions remains untouched by this decision. The charge is ironic because Obama's campaign disabled a track back feature on its website which did permit such contributions to be made through pre-paid credit cards purchased around the globe. The campaign never was fined or otherwise disciplined for this because his party had blocked replacements to the overseeing Federal Election Commission and lacking a quorum, it could not act at the time.
    A Cornell Law Professor calls the President out on this bit of rhetorical legerdemain:
    Request Special Counsel As To Foreign Contributions. "That the Obama campaign received foreign donations as a result of this scheme may be the only thing agreed-upon by both Pamela Geller and Charles Johnson. Indeed, Obama for America has admitted receiving foreign contributions. The fact that the Federal Election Commission is not investigating the allegations necessitates a special counsel.
     

    leb1982

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    ok people I see you keep missing the point Obama is not the only one in our goverment if you went to school there is three parts the President whos is the executive Congress whos is the legislative branch and the supreme court who is the judicial he does not make the laws on his own. Congress has the ability to stop anything he tries to do dont bash one man for what the group did or didn't do. He is trying to promote change but if everyone stops him guess what we wont have change.
     

    BloodEclipse

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    ok people I see you keep missing the point Obama is not the only one in our goverment if you went to school there is three parts the President whos is the executive Congress whos is the legislative branch and the supreme court who is the judicial he does not make the laws on his own. Congress has the ability to stop anything he tries to do dont bash one man for what the group did or didn't do. He is trying to promote change but if everyone stops him guess what we wont have change.

    Please help us understand what change you would like to see him accomplish.
     

    leb1982

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    its not all in the change that I am looking for all I am saying is give the man more than the year people have given him change does not come overnight:patriot:
     

    BloodEclipse

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    its not all in the change that I am looking for all I am saying is give the man more than the year people have given him change does not come overnight:patriot:

    Everything the man endorses or lays hands on turns to :poop:.

    Personally I would be content if he sat on his backside for 3 years doing nothing.

    The change he has proposed, changes the USA into something I won't recognize as a Free Republic.
     

    leb1982

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    so you just missed what I said Im not looking for any specific change Im saying give the man more than one year before you feed him to the wolves!!! and to the everything the man endorses comment you are talking like past presidents didnt make mistakes. thats not a job you can go to school for or learn how to do overnight its a learn as you go.
     

    BloodEclipse

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    so you just missed what I said Im not looking for any specific change Im saying give the man more than one year before you feed him to the wolves!!! and to the everything the man endorses comment you are talking like past presidents didnt make mistakes. thats not a job you can go to school for or learn how to do overnight its a learn as you go.

    So please expound then on the qualifications that make obama presidential material.
     

    infidel

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    He is trying to promote change but if everyone stops him guess what we wont have change.

    so you just missed what I said Im not looking for any specific change
    I'm not talking about what you are looking for. I am asking what change he is wanting/doing that you specifically said he is trying to promote.

    and to the everything the man endorses comment you are talking like past presidents didnt make mistakes.
    Nobody said ANYTHING about past presidents. Why did you?

    Also, could you please use complete sentences with correct punctuation? Your responses are very hard to read.
     

    leb1982

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    Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
    No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.
    Term limit amendment - US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 – ratified February 27, 1951
    No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.
    He met those so he's good in my book.

    And for the record I never said he was trying to promote anythings someone else brought that up so I commented and the reason why I brought up past presidents is beceause he is not the only one to make a mistake. but this is starting to bore me so enjoy this is just my opinion and that is yours you are intitle to it which was given to you by your Four Fathers all I am saying is give the man a fight chance. enjoy your day and on the complete sentence part, I see you can read just fine because you responed
     

    infidel

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    Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
    No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.
    Term limit amendment - US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 – ratified February 27, 1951
    No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.
    He met those so he's good in my book.

    And for the record I never said he was trying to promote anythings someone else brought that up so I commented and the reason why I brought up past presidents is beceause he is not the only one to make a mistake. but this is starting to bore me so enjoy this is just my opinion and that is yours you are intitle to it which was given to you by your Four Fathers all I am saying is give the man a fight chance. enjoy your day and on the complete sentence part, I see you can read just fine because you responed

    Hey no hard feelings, I was just wanting to get a little debate going on, that's all. If you get the feeling to talk about these things again just let me know, I'd love to talk to you more about it.

    p.s. I had to read that paragraph 3 times to figure out what you meant:):
     

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