AK's are "cheap" or "junk" compared to AR's

[richardraw316]

Yes, ARs come in many calibers now, but a lot of them are exotic. 5.56 in a SHTF case is good just because of abundace, but I wouldn't expect to find a cache of 300 blackout, 300 Whisper, 6.8 SPC, 30 AR, 6.5 Grendal, 450 Bushmaster, 50 Beowolf, 458 Socom, etc. In fact, I'd view that as a negative just because other than 5.56 I wouldn't expect to find any ammo. So you could buy an upper and hope you'll find ammo, or you could use that money and get something you'll know you'll find ammo for.

There is a lot of 7.62x39 out there, which is a major plus for the AK. And prices on ammo right now isn't bad so getting a thousand or two thousand rounds isn't out of the question.

Believe me, I know about meager wages, but I also learned long ago that quality costs money, and quality usually holds its value well. When I bought my Dillon 550, or any of my guns, even knives, it hurts. The thought well I could buy a new EDC folder, or I could make 2 months' car payments, crosses my mind a lot. But I do have peace of mind that if I have to sell it I can get a good chunk back. Firearms are money pits, always have been, always will be. But quality is still quality and people pay for quality, new or used.

When I said shtf weapon, I was not meaning just cliber changes, though that's good to.
I was thinking something short like sbr for moving around and a longer accurate upper with a scope for hunting and long range duty. 9mm or 45 acp as a suppresor host upper. Heck a 22 adapter is also nice to have in the bag. The ak is awesome, but not as versitile.

 

[richardraw316]

Actually they cost a bit more than year 2000 prices. As of 2011 I asked our supply SGT just for grins and the cost was just over $600. Last I heard Colt still has the M-4, FN has the M-16 versions.

I have told this story before on this forum, but it fits here.
My father was a tank commander. One of the jobs he had to do was keep inventory of everything in his tank. On the check list their were prices for everything on the list. He told me it suprised him that a m16a1 was listed at $18. And a m1911 was listed at $10. This was in 1975. I think I would buy one or two at that price.

 

[Tombs]

When I said shtf weapon, I was not meaning just cliber changes, though that's good to.
I was thinking something short like sbr for moving around and a longer accurate upper with a scope for hunting and long range duty. 9mm or 45 acp as a suppresor host upper. Heck a 22 adapter is also nice to have in the bag. The ak is awesome, but not as versitile.

Why change uppers for this? Just go with the SBR, it'll work fine in almost any of those roles. You might be surprised what kind of ranges they can still reach. A suppressor does the trick with a 5.56, you don't need a pistol caliber AR unless the crack somehow warrants trading your rifle ballistics for handgun ballistics.

The AKs versatility will surprise you as well. What will that AR do that the AK won't? There's even match triggers and bull barrels for the AK these days, if that's of any interest.
Customizations aren't exactly what I'd consider versatility though. Being able to use the same rifle equally well across a broader than usual range of applications is how I would define versatility. Of course that's usually a function of the shooter, so people can get offended by that concept. There's a lot of versatility built into simplicity.
I think the word you're really looking for is *modularity.

Either way, for a big fan of the AK platform that doesn't have a polytech or some other holy grail, the new arsenal is finally offering a chance to own something in the same ballpark. You wouldn't scoff at the price if you saw what some of those guns were running for. If only they'd find a way to get an Tigr/SVD to the US market for less than the price of a new car, then we could sleep a little easier at night knowing justice still exists in the world.

 

[03A3]

Some will disagree, but I think the day will come when these SAM7SF be worth a lot of money.
If I could do it, I would buy a few of these. Maybe use one and sit on the others. Or sit on them all.
I can't say that the rear of the receiver is a total turnoff to me. It's just different. The ambi safety and folder mechanism can't occupy the same place, something had to move.

 

[N_K_1984]

...The AKs versatility will surprise you as well. What will that AR do that the AK won't? There's even match triggers and bull barrels for the AK these days, if that's of any interest.
Customizations aren't exactly what I'd consider versatility though. Being able to use the same rifle equally well across a broader than usual range of applications is how I would define versatility. Of course that's usually a function of the shooter, so people can get offended by that concept. There's a lot of versatility built into simplicity...

Someone once said, "Tactical is a mindset, not an equipment list." some AK fans might know who I'm talking about...

 

[Johncandy]

Yes they are. Shoot the rifle that makes you happy.

 

[Dave M]

Why change uppers for this? Just go with the SBR, it'll work fine in almost any of those roles. You might be surprised what kind of ranges they can still reach. A suppressor does the trick with a 5.56, you don't need a pistol caliber AR unless the crack somehow warrants trading your rifle ballistics for handgun ballistics.

This. With modern ammunition (Such as Mk318 Mod 0) that doesn't rely on velocity for wounding characteristics there is no longer a reason not to go shorter. An 11.5" AR is just as capable as its 16"+ barreled brethren to make lethal hits out to 700m.

Also, screw pistol caliber AR's. Recoil is usually greater (due to blow-back operation as opposed to DI) and is still pretty hard to suppress (that said, 5.56 cans are still pretty damned loud).

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Yeah, I can show you AR torture tests as well. I'm not saying AK's are junk. I have owned one, but you can't beat the ergonomics of the AR.

Being left-handed, I've found the AK to be much more user-friendly FOR ME than the M-16/AR-15 series of rifles. So I guess, depending upon who you are, you CAN beat the ergonomics of the AR. . . .

 

[Cerberus]

Being left-handed, I've found the AK to be much more user-friendly FOR ME than the M-16/AR-15 series of rifles. So I guess, depending upon who you are, you CAN beat the ergonomics of the AR. . . .

Now this I will have to agree with. ARs do tend to be more righty friendly than most, besides the FAL.

 

[Shootin'IN]

Comparing the AR to the AK is like comparing a Ferrari to a dependable work truck.
Both are good at the job they are intended for.
You wouldn't drop your tools in a Ferrari & go blasting down a dirt road, would you??

 

[sig1473]

That is why I own both. My next purchase will be another AK though.

 

[warriorbob]

I thought FN Herstal was making both M-16's and M-4's. Then there is this: U.S. Army places order for 24,000 M4A1 carbines with Remington | Military Times GearScout and lastly this, http://kitup.military.com/2013/02/army-awards-m4m4a1-contract-fn.html

Your right for some reason I had hk on the brain

 

[Trigger Time]

Comparing the AR to the AK is like comparing a Ferrari to a dependable work truck.
Both are good at the job they are intended for.
You wouldn't drop your tools in a Ferrari & go blasting down a dirt road, would you??

I agree!
the AK is for real work. The AR is for bankers

 

[warriorbob]

Comparing the AR to the AK is like comparing a Ferrari to a dependable work truck.
Both are good at the job they are intended for.
You wouldn't drop your tools in a Ferrari & go blasting down a dirt road, would you??

I probably would lol it be like an Italian dukes of hazard!

 

[roadrunner681]

fellas it don't matter which one is supposedly better, if you get hit with ether one its gonna suck

 

[Shootin'IN]

I probably would lol it be like an Italian dukes of hazard!

Yes there is a little bit of redneck in all of us.........some more than others!

 

[223 Gunner]

If I am dropping $1500 on any rifle it had better be able to consistently hit a target at 500m or more, with something far better than minute of man sized groupings

You need a 20in gun to do this, and even at that, by the time that little .22 hits a man, most of the energy is gone. I currently own NO AK's and a few AR's. I love both, and they both have their place.

 

[Cerberus]

You need a 20in gun to do this, and even at that, by the time that little .22 hits a man, most of the energy is gone. I currently own NO AK's and a few AR's. I love both, and they both have their place.

Oh really? Is that why they are rocking 600m targets at the Army DMR course using M4s? However, in all seriousness since most shooters have problems shooting beyond 200 (many rarely venturing beyond 100) the AK would be quite suitable. But at $1500, I am probably going to go ahead and pony up the little extra $$$ and go M1A or FAL and have way more capabilities.

 

[223 Gunner]

Oh really? Is that why they are rocking 600m targets at the Army DMR course using M4s? However, in all seriousness since most shooters have problems shooting beyond 200 (many rarely venturing beyond 100) the AK would be quite suitable. But at $1500, I am probably going to go ahead and pony up the little extra $$$ and go M1A or FAL and have way more capabilities.

Former Marine here, in boot camp we shot our M16A1's out to 500 meters, so yes I can take a long shot. I would personally have to see a 14.5 M4 hit accurately at 600 meters.
They have an effective range of 300 Meters, which is right were an AK is. I'm not in either camp I like them both, I think the AK is a more robust rifle that can take more abuse. M16's M4's are a more precision rifle.

 

[Cerberus]

Former Marine here, in boot camp we shot our M16A1's out to 500 meters, so yes I can take a long shot. I would personally have to see a 14.5 M4 hit accurately at 600 meters.
They have an effective range of 300 Meters, which is right were an AK is. I'm not in either camp I like them both, I think the AK is a more robust rifle that can take more abuse. M16's M4's are a more precision rifle.

I have two very good friends that went to the DMR course in the past 4 years and both reported consistent 600m KD range hits with the M4, ACOG mounted of course. In fact I usually have one of them test my reloads accuracy in my rifles since he shoots way better than I do.