AK Safety Reminder

[Gabriel]

Whatever you do, never look back.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Kirk, if you want to blame your errors and your student's errors on a specific "AK quirk" or "AK fine point" that, in reality, are not specific to the AK, but rather, potential issues that exist across all firearms, have at it, dude.

Why do you believe that "quirk of the AK" somehow makes it exclusive to the AK? Please explain this Gun Aspie trait so that I can address it in the future. If I had used (not exclusive to the AK) would this help prevent your future meltdowns?

Did you read in "exclusivity" or did you just not realize what was going on so you came out shooting in all directions because you projected yourself when someone was talking about safety and you felt attacked (which is usually what happens on INGO)?

The bolt not turning loose of a round is not exclusive of the AK but is common with the AK because of all the factors that I expressed. Further, overlooking the stuck/captured round is often associated with the AK, especially when doing the gun shop clear. This is enough of a occurrence to call it a quirk, because how far back one can manipulate the charging handle to the rear of the AK receiver. That distance, combined with a dull-colored round, filth, gack, soot, fatigue, inexperience, can all lead to individuals overlooking a captured round which is then loaded back into the breech. It happens. It happens commonly with the AK which is what "quirk" means.

"Quirk" means trait. Just because the AK has a quirk does not mean that other platforms do not have it too. Firearms are not zero sum.

Is is a lecture on firearms operation or the English language that you need? Please advise. I am standing by to help.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Whatever you do, never look back.

This is correct, because if you look back you might see a cartridge stuck to the bolt face and we all know that it can never happen. I mean, guns are just like NASA space shuttles, marvels of engineering and can never malfunction, for any reason.

Never look back:

 

[AdamP123]

Why do you believe that "quirk of the AK" somehow makes it exclusive to the AK? Please explain this Gun Aspie trait so that I can address it in the future. If I had used (not exclusive to the AK) would this help prevent your future meltdowns?

"Quirk" means trait. Just because the AK has a quirk does not mean that other platforms do not have it too. Firearms are not zero sum.

No. Trait means trait. Quirk means quirk.

Quirk Definition: A peculiar behavioral trait.

My Gift to You: https://www.dictionary.com/ & https://www.thesaurus.com/

Asperger's. Autism. Tantrums. And I'm the one having a meltdown. OK.

It happens. It happens commonly with the AK which is what "quirk" means.

You can keep repeating that, but repetition will not make it true. FTEs are not "common with the AK". As we know, the AK is considered on of the most reliable weapons on planet earth because FTEs are common with them, right?

Calling FTEs a "quirk" of the AK makes little to no sense because it is not a peculiar trait of an AK anymore than it is a peculiar trait of an AR, HK, or (enter firearm here). It is a common malfunction with all firearms. You can call me autistic and say that I have aspperger's. That's fine, but I won't call you stupid for claiming that FTEs are a "quirk" or a "fine point" of the AK.

and you felt attacked..

Oh. So, now I "felt attacked". Man, you sure can tell a lot through text. That's an interesting quirk that you possess.

Is is a lecture on firearms operation or the English language that you need? Please advise. I am standing by to help.

Now that I have clarified this for you, please let me know if you have any questions.

 

[snowdrifter]

That's an interesting quirk that you possess.

"Quirk" Freeman?

 

[AdamP123]

"Quirk" Freeman?

LOL. Love it.

By the way, Quirk... I mean Kirk, I am going to award you 10 additional INGO points since the word "trait" was used in the definition of the word "quirk".

Congrats!. You have earned a total of 20 INGO points by starting this thread.

Disclaimer: We may have to check with a mod. I am not entirely sure if users are able to award points to themselves.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So, it is reading comprehension. I understand that Aspies can have certain trigger words/sound combinations that set them off in these public tantrums, so let's look at where I used "quirk":

This quirk of the AK is a fine point, but a very important point. It can save a life so I share it so others can gain knowledge and lead to a safer, more educated gun culture which is the purpose of INGO.

Your trigger word, "this quirk" of the AK references the cartridge sticking and people missing the round stuck to the bolt face as the charging handle is pulled all the way back and the shooter misses the dull cartridge case, not the FTE.

"This quirk" does not imply exclusivity. "This quirk" does not imply that AKs are prone to FTEs.

"This quirk" does mean that because of the spacing and mechanics of the platform that individuals can miss cartridges stuck to the bolt face, especially as the charging handle is pulled all the way back.

I am sorry I used your trigger word as it clearly upset you and your went into multiple incoherent ramblings against imaginary concerns.

However, the potential safety issue exists and I raise so all of INGO can be aware of it so they can address it when they are shooting.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You can keep repeating that, but repetition will not make it true. FTEs are not "common with the AK". As we know, the AK is considered on of the most reliable weapons on planet earth because FTEs are common with them, right?

And yet you have a video, which you have admitted watching, showing how AKs can FTE.

There are 60M AK-47s on this planet. Some percentage of them is going to screw up. Murphy's Law dictates that it shall be the AK in your hands.

Learn about guns so you can address these safety concerns. Ignoring them or ignorantly arguing that they do not exist is a good way to get hurt.

Acknowledge the problem, overcome the problem. You are going to do fine but you need to study.

 

[Floivanus]

I fail to see how 1) doing a press check first wouldn’t be drilled in anyones head and 2) how in the world is this even considered clearing a weapon, draw the durn charging handle back with authority, it will eject EVERY single time. AK doesn’t eject rounds? Then the ejector bought the farm, the thing protrudes nearly halfway into the case head, if it fails to eject, the ejector is pooched, new receiver, or new rail time. And the things eject just barely past the round leaving the chamber.

I would check any of my AKM, VEPR, Saiga, Galil, or my type 1; but I know they’re all the same way

 

[hopper68]

Post 3837 for those keeping track.

 

[ATM]

Did Kirk get corrected and resort to playing the suffering safety martyr again?


Ahh, good times.


Quirk Freeman.

 

[AdamP123]

And yet you have a video, which you have admitted watching, showing how AKs can FTE.

This is getting rather comical.

And yet you fail to understand that I know this and have never denied that AKs can FTE. Why do you keep repeating the same thing? This has been established multiple times in this thread, but yet, you keep posting as if I am in denial of AKs having the potential to FTE. Reading comprehension, Kirk... reading comprehension.

There are 60M AK-47s on this planet. Some percentage of them is going to screw up.

Ohhhhhhh. Now, we are getting somewhere. I follow now. So, what you meant to say was that AKs are common, not that FTEs are common quirks of AKs, right? See, Kirk, words and how we use them are important. I am sure people of normal intellect, those with autism, and those with Asperger's can all appreciate this aspect of communication.

In all honesty, I am not sure if you are trying to cover up for some of the nonsense that you've said in this thread, or if you really just are bad at getting your points across with common words.

Learn about guns so you can address these safety concerns. Ignoring them or ignorantly arguing that they do not exist is a good way to get hurt.

LOL.

I fail to see how 1) doing a press check first wouldn’t be drilled in anyones head and 2) how in the world is this even considered clearing a weapon, draw the durn charging handle back with authority, it will eject EVERY single time. AK doesn’t eject rounds? Then the ejector bought the farm, the thing protrudes nearly halfway into the case head, if it fails to eject, the ejector is pooched, new receiver, or new rail time. And the things eject just barely past the round leaving the chamber.

I would check any of my AKM, VEPR, Saiga, Galil, or my type 1; but I know they’re all the same way

Not sure if you are directing your post at me or if this is a general comment, but we are in agreement. However, I am sure Kirk will be along shortly to correct you in some aspect.

 

[Brad69]

Friends don’t allow friends to use AK’s!

Kirk has enlightened us to the safety faults of the platform!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Did Kirk get corrected and resort to playing the suffering safety martyr again?

Look, I am schooling the drooling Aspies here. You return to your bacon sandwich.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Ohhhhhhh. Now, we are getting somewhere. I follow now. So, what you meant to say was that AKs are common, not that FTEs are common quirks of AKs, right? See, Kirk, words and how we use them are important. I am sure people of normal intellect, those with autism, and those with Asperger's can all appreciate this aspect of communication.

In all honesty, I am not sure if you are trying to cover up for some of the nonsense that you've said in this thread, or if you really just are bad at getting your points across with common words.

You cannot be this obtuse.

You are simply covering up for your being embarrassed that you had no idea that this was a potential safety problem. You got schooled and now you want to lash out.

It's OK, I understand why you are acting this way. I only ask that you learn from my experience so you can teach others to be safer shooters--look forward, look back, look again.

 

[AdamP123]

You are simply covering up for your being embarrassed that you had no idea that this was a potential safety problem.

Kirk, you are good entertainment. Yeah, I had no idea that an AK could FTE until I bumped into you and this thread. You really are something. I have acknowledged that it is possible, but once again, you just lack reading comprehension.

Let me refresh your memory...

Page 4:

I don't think anyone has denied that failures can occur. All rifles can fail.

Page 5:

It's a problem with any firearm, not just AKs.

So, are you claiming that I denied that rounds can fail to eject in an AK? OK. Show me where I said that...

^^^^ Heck, Kirk, I even gave you the opportunity to show me where I denied the possibility of an FTE in an AK on page 5. Remember?

Page 7:

You can keep repeating that, but repetition will not make it true. FTEs are not "common with the AK". As we know, the AK is considered one of the most reliable weapons on planet earth because FTEs are common with them, right?

Calling FTEs a "quirk" of the AK makes little to no sense because it is not a peculiar trait of an AK anymore than it is a peculiar trait of an AR, HK, or (enter firearm here). It is a common malfunction with all firearms.

You seem like the type of guy who is a legend in his own mind, Kirk. You must think that either you are extraordinarily amazing, or that the average person is extraordinarily dumb if you thought that you were going to come to an online firearms forum and bestow upon everyone this unrevealed-until-now information about the possibility of a FTE. I mean damn. Just damn. An FTE in an AK! Wow, Kirk! That's possible!?!?!?! Amazing work, man!!

Kirk, face it. Really, this was not a true FTE. This was a FTOP or a FTIP.

FTOP = Failure to Operate Properly

FTIP = Failure to Instruct Properly

 

[rhino]

Not obvious at all if you don't look back at the bolt. I know you have seen this in class. People do the gun store clear and do not use gravity, the sneaky snake round sticks to the bolt face.

You know how it is, people get scope locked on the breech and do not look to see the bolt. They then let go of the charging handle and reload the weapon. The weapon can then cook off or Jethro points it at something he should not and you get blood or property damage or both.

Is it rare? Yes. Can it happen? Yes. Can it happen with other platforms? Sure but more common with crappy ammo in AKs. How do we prevent it? First, be aware of it. Second, look back, and better yet, IMHO, feel around.

The problem is that I am telling people about safety and people do not want to hear about it as, 1. they already know everything, 2. they have never come across it thus it cannot happen.

It's not like I have not been here before.

This is good to know. I've used an AK in only one class (carbine/pistol with Louis, maybe my 4th or 5th time through), so my experience with it limited at best. I have to admit that I do not rotate an AK so the ejection port is toward the ground when I rack the charging handle. I have to reach over the top with my left hand because I can't reach things very well going underneath like most people advocate. Stupid gun needs its charging handle on the left side where it belongs.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

A photo? Well, maybe, if I can find one. It's the weapon grabbing the round out of the chamber and not turning loose. There is lots of travel in the AK bolt, and pulled all the way back I have experienced people who miss this.

Rare, I agree, but it happens. Enough to warn others of.

People will look forward but not back and miss a live round, especially if that feld grau steel case ammo.

I had it happen to me, we shot my type 56 AK along with other rifles that day and cleared all firearms when packing up at the farm. It was put in a vault with no magazine for a few years and when my son pulled it out to shoot on day he yanked back the bolt and a round flipped out on the shop floor. It was one of those things that makes you rethink how you are clearing a firearm.

 

[Floivanus]

This is good to know. I've used an AK in only one class (carbine/pistol with Louis, maybe my 4th or 5th time through), so my experience with it limited at best. I have to admit that I do not rotate an AK so the ejection port is toward the ground when I rack the charging handle. I have to reach over the top with my left hand because I can't reach things very well going underneath like most people advocate. Stupid gun needs its charging handle on the left side where it belongs.

Charging handle is on the proper side, just like a springfield, garand, mauser, etc. I’ll take right side charging over that rear t-handle crap anyday.

there’s also left hand charging handles available for the AKM

 

[AdamP123]

This is good to know. I've used an AK in only one class (carbine/pistol with Louis, maybe my 4th or 5th time through), so my experience with it limited at best. I have to admit that I do not rotate an AK so the ejection port is toward the ground when I rack the charging handle. I have to reach over the top with my left hand because I can't reach things very well going underneath like most people advocate. Stupid gun needs its charging handle on the left side where it belongs.

Try rotating the rifle counter clockwise so that your charging handle is at 12 o'clock and charge the rifle with the pinky side of your hand (I'm assuming you are right-handed). You may like it. I also do the reach-around, going under the rifle. They both work. However, the first method I mentioned gives you a chance to quickly inspect the rifle and chamber.

Charging handle is on the proper side, just like a springfield, garand, mauser, etc. I’ll take right side charging over that rear t-handle crap anyday.

It is on the proper side, depending on who you ask, thus, the reason why there is the left-sided charging mods for the AK that you mentioned. It's the reason why the more modern Galil Ace has the charging handle on the left side. It is also the reason why the SCAR and nearly all modern firearms have a swappable/ambidextrous charging handles. There is no "proper" side.

I had it happen to me, we shot my type 56 AK along with other rifles that day and cleared all firearms when packing up at the farm. It was put in a vault with no magazine for a few years and when my son pulled it out to shoot on day he yanked back the bolt and a round flipped out on the shop floor. It was one of those things that makes you rethink how you are clearing a firearm.

First and foremost, I would be questioning "Who has access to my firearms and did any of those people mess with my firearms?". The remainder of your dilemma has been beaten to absolute death in this thread.