Air Force contract training rifles

[melensdad]

I really hate the banner in your signature... *sighs* makes me miss Firefly.

Well there is a special box set collectors edition, being released before Thanksgiving on Blu Ray disks so you'll be able to see Firefly in full High Definition soon!!! I already have my set on pre-order at Amazon.com, it discounted heavily for pre-orders.

 

[ryanmercer]

Well there is a special box set collectors edition, being released before Thanksgiving on Blu Ray disks so you'll be able to see Firefly in full High Definition soon!!! I already have my set on pre-order at Amazon.com, it discounted heavily for pre-orders.

Doesn't help me much... don't have a tv or dvd player capable of the experience.

 

[sjstill]

So, it seems Oly finally makes a reliable AR....

 

[munky_3434]

BA----ZING!!!!!!!

 

[jeremy]

More of my tax money spent on useless crap.

 

[munky_3434]

More of my tax money spent on useless crap.

i'd have to differ from ya on that.

they are intended as aides for (generally) 18 or 19 year old "kids" who are brave enough to fight for our country. with all the money the govenrment spends to train theese kids,and insure them. with upwards of $500,000 life insurance per soilder, where will more money be spent?

most kids have never touched a weapon before and theese "toys" are their first expirence. if theese brave young men and women are gonna put their asses on the line for you and i, then those things are worth every damn cent. i am more than happy to see my tax dollars better equip a troop

 

[Cwood]

i'd have to differ from ya on that.

they are intended as aides for (generally) 18 or 19 year old "kids" who are brave enough to fight for our country. with all the money the govenrment spends to train theese kids,and insure them. with upwards of $500,000 life insurance per soilder, where will more money be spent?

most kids have never touched a weapon before and theese "toys" are their first expirence. if theese brave young men and women are gonna put their asses on the line for you and i, then those things are worth every damn cent. i am more than happy to see my tax dollars better equip a troop

How do you get better equip from a non firing weapon? I think they are a total watse of money when there is a real weapon sitting in the armory. That is the weapon they should learn on.

 

[bwframe]

How do you get better equip from a non firing weapon? I think they are a total watse of money when there is a real weapon sitting in the armory. That is the weapon they should learn on.

Anything less than this would be assuming the military doesn't know what they are doing when it comes to weapons training. Even though that's exactly what they have been doing for 200+ years.

 

[munky_3434]

you want to give a fresh out of high school, runny nosed youth a functional weapon. as the first 3 weeks or so of basic military training consists of shocking the kids it is'nt really a time for them to have a functional firearm. for several of the kids entering BMT they realize within about 1 day that they were'nt cut out for the military. from there i personally witnessed one guy offer everyone in out unit $100 bucks to "accidentally" slam his arm in a door. what do you think that kid would have did with a real gun?

the whole point of theese it to get them used to them. the responsibility of keeping tabs on it(think a high school running back made to hold a football after he fumbled in a big game)proper carrying, muzzel direction ect. just becuase they enter the armed services does'nt mean they came in with a wealth of knowledge about weapons. it's just the same as the "redguns" hell, most every federal law enforcement trainee(FBI, marshalls, ect) carry dummy guns during training

 

[munky_3434]

like i stated earlier, most of this is from the new"battlefield airman" crap they are pushing. basically they are finding out no one in the air force knows how to handle themselves with a boomstick, as most of us are office monkeys and mechanics.

air force never really had the "soilder first" mentality, and they are trying to get everyone on the same page. and just handing every new recruit a weapon would just demolish them in no time, as they are just cycled through almost monthly, and the air force is short on armorers to fix all the ones the trainees break. a broken m-16 tends to be a little costly, a thousand broken is a waste of money.

 

[Cwood]

you want to give a fresh out of high school, runny nosed youth a functional weapon. *SNIP*

That was me, fresh out of high school in the Army as an Infantryman. No special weapon to learn on before I was handed a real one.

Also you dont even see a weapon the first 3 weeks you are there. Its not like they join, get shipped to basic and first day of basic handed a weapon.

As for your law enforecment training comment. LEO's training does not compare to military trasining. Military training will encompass you firing on a target at a distance. LEO training the target is very close proximity and weapon retention. There is no weapon retention training Military basic training. I can see the use of training weapons in LEO training.

Just my

 

[munky_3434]

Also you dont even see a weapon the first 3 weeks you are there. Its not like they join, get shipped to basic and first day of basic handed a weapon.

As for your law enforecment training comment. LEO's training does not compare to military trasining. Military training will encompass you firing on a target at a distance. LEO training the target is very close proximity and weapon retention. There is no weapon retention training Military basic training. I can see the use of training weapons in LEO training.

exactly, why have that many real weapons. air force has the following training squads. 320th,321,322,323,and 331. with each of theese graduating approx 100-120 kids weekly why have that many weapons that they can break? when you can have these toys to teach them the basics on. week 5 is when the af does it's "firearms" block. 25 rounds of "fam fire" is what it used to be, mabey more by now. why have so many real ones. because as we all know, they will tinker with them while no one is looking and probably break them

they have the rifles they fire with located at their training center for air farce armorers, so they can inspect and maintain the limited number of functional training weapons really needed.

theese certianley help theese kids out. how many AF troops in iraq have to have their weapons at all times? most all of them. and if it was'nt for theese toys most of them would loose their weapons within a week.

be honest, you came from the army. how many blue suiters did you ever see that you honestly wondered how they got in the armed services? we are rying to be pro-active with our training for a change.

i see what you're saying, but honestly with the kids i have met, and some of the ones i see coming in every month in preparation for basic. i would be scared to death of handing them a real weapon, or they are just soo damned goofy that they need some extra time. as they could probably break an anvil with a pile of straw

 

[sjstill]

When I went thru AF basic in 1978, we had a total of 2 days with the M-16. First day was dry fire, using an M-16 (IIRC). Day 2 was wet fire using an AR-15. Total of 60 or 80 rounds, and we were done.

Lot has changed since then.

 

[munky_3434]

When I went thru AF basic in 1978, we had a total of 2 days with the M-16. First day was dry fire, using an M-16 (IIRC). Day 2 was wet fire using an AR-15. Total of 60 or 80 rounds, and we were done.

Lot has changed since then.

i was down at lackland 2 summers ago for my 7 level for security. basic is now 8 weeks, they all get camel backs instead of canteens. and i think the air farce is going to the "kinder gentler" approach. there was a kid in the bx looking at cd's instead of buying supplies, instead of tearing him a new one the TI walked over and calmly told him to put the cd down and move along.

the following weekend i was in the chow hall and had a newb with mabey 6 months time in service start barking orders at me(thought i was a trainee). well after i informed him i had more time in the desert crapping than he did in service(with a few choice words)i calmly asked him who his supervisor was. did'nt contact him, but i had the kid almost in tears

would not be pleased.

 

[sjstill]

WOW. It has really changed down there!

Crap, I can remember watching Iranian AF troops marching around the base. Don't reckon you'd see that now

TI's weren't allowed to touch us, but they sure as heck could yell at us! And they did.

We had 8 weeks. Was there last part of June, all of July & part of August. Hotter than h*ll....

 

[ryanmercer]

after i informed him i had more time in the desert crapping than he did in service

Hahaha

 

[munky_3434]

WOW. It has really changed down there!

Crap, I can remember watching Iranian AF troops marching around the base. Don't reckon you'd see that now

TI's weren't allowed to touch us, but they sure as heck could yell at us! And they did.

We had 8 weeks. Was there last part of June, all of July & part of August. Hotter than h*ll....

i doubt iranian, but there were foreign officers all over that place. some training they get there. they basically have a complex on base.(and man could they drink)

yeah they sure yelled a lot when i was there.....and threw stuff. i spent a lot of time doing pushups

 

[VUPDblue]

As for your law enforecment training comment. LEO's training does not compare to military trasining. Military training will encompass you firing on a target at a distance. LEO training the target is very close proximity and weapon retention. There is no weapon retention training Military basic training. I can see the use of training weapons in LEO training.

While that is true, it is only true to an extent. The patrol rifle training program that officers must go through is much different than the ordinary academy firearms training (read:handgun training). It is specialized and intense and encompases ranges from CQB to 300yds.

 

[sjstill]

Pretty sure it was Iranians, 1978, just before the Shah fell. Hell, could've been Paki's or Indian too. Marched like Brits, swinging the arms high and all that rot

i doubt iranian, but there were foreign officers all over that place. some training they get there. they basically have a complex on base.(and man could they drink)

yeah they sure yelled a lot when i was there.....and threw stuff. i spent a lot of time doing pushups

 

[munky_3434]

i was meaning i doubt there were iranian when i was there