Afghanistan Milestone

[redneckmedic]

Not a problem, if it was up to me I would have shot everything, and salted the Earth in Africa years ago.
That is why I am a soldier and not a politician.

1. Does that make me an evil person?!
2. Or just a cynical individual?!
3. Or a f*cking realist?

#3 ...................

 

[Fletch]

Not a problem, if it was up to me I would have shot everything, and salted the Earth in Africa years ago.
That is why I am a soldier and not a politician.
Does that make me an evil person?!
Or just a cynical individual?!
Or a f*cking realist?!

#3 ...................

 

[dan lenson]

I mis-spoke.

My bad.

 

[jeremy]

I guess if the lefties are gonna call you "baby killer" anyway, you might as well earn the title...



I have nowhere suggested that government-sponsored foreign aid is a viable alternative, because I don't believe it is. I also don't believe genocide is or should ever be a solution. Frankly, I find your easy acceptance of the idea rather disturbing... if there are as many soldiers willing to fire up the furnaces as you're alluding to, we've got some serious moral problems in our military.

Africa can be fixed, but doing so would take far more moral fortitude than simply nuking it from orbit or writing checks ad nauseam. Given that American politicians (and most of their constituents) fall basically into 2 camps, throw money at it vs. throw soldiers at it, that fortitude is almost certainly not forthcoming.

My easy acceptance of the idea...
Walk a mile in my shoes brother before you judge me and mine so harshly...
Do you personally know anyone who has served in Africa?! Ask them want they thought of the people there? Find someone who is not a Sky Pilot, they think the World is made of goodness anyway. The only moral problem the military has is the one across the pond that sleeps soundly at night while we do "do bad things". I have several years of experience trying to aid various places and peoples there. It is just a pit of despair... Out of all the sh*t I have seen or done in combat, none of it compares to the crap I seen there.

Africa can not be fixed.

 

[Fletch]

My easy acceptance of the idea...
Walk a mile in my shoes brother before you judge me and mine so harshly...

I don't see how "walking a mile in your shoes" would change my mind about the morality of killing innocent people from infants to the elderly. The idea that you could just toss babies onto a fire and call it "a job that needs doing" is not something we'll ever see eye to eye on.

Do you personally know anyone who has served in Africa?! Ask them want they thought of the people there?

Yes, and I have. There are good people in Africa. People who are trying to find their way to better societies and better ways of doing things. People who are trying to build up rather than tear down. People you see as worthless and want to kill.

I have several years of experience trying to aid various places and peoples there. It is just a pit of despair... Out of all the sh*t I have seen or done in combat, none of it compares to the crap I seen there.

I do not question your experience. I question your interpretation of same, and the moral code, if any, that constrains your actions.

Africa can not be fixed.

We'll just have to disagree on that one.

 

[HandK]

"It is wrong to morn the death of these soldiers, Rather we should thank GOD that such men lived!!!" Gen George Paton.

Our men and women that are fighting and dying for the our right to print and say what we want to, God Bless them!! they are hero's all of them past and present they fight and die so we can live free, regardless of how anyone feels about what is going on in the war, we need to celebrate these fine men and women and Thank God that they live.

 

[HICKMAN]

and hear I thought NEOCONS were ex-Liberals driven to the right... wonder why people like using that term so much?

 

[southern.in.guy]

Even though I don't support the WAT I do support our men that are tring to fight this war. The big thing I see is that every move we make is right on the tv for everyone to watch. This is wrong don't send a man to a dangerous place and tell him or her they can't do there job because to many people are watching. I say get all the reporters out do what needs to be done to achieve your goal. Don't give me a gun and tell me to stand there till somebody attacks me before i can do something about it. This is why i don't with the WAT.

 

[Fletch]

Even though I don't support the WAT I do support our men that are tring to fight this war. The big thing I see is that every move we make is right on the tv for everyone to watch. This is wrong don't send a man to a dangerous place and tell him or her they can't do there job because to many people are watching. I say get all the reporters out do what needs to be done to achieve your goal. Don't give me a gun and tell me to stand there till somebody attacks me before i can do something about it. This is why i don't with the WAT.

WAT?

 

[Designer99]

Joe got it right. If we don't fight them there, you will have suicide bombers and the like here. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

What? Having troops in Afghanistan has no bearing whatsoever on suicide bombers here. They're not an army! Anyone can decide to support their cause and be a suicide bomber.

Maybe it hasn't happened here yet because the media propaganda wants you to believe that every single Muslim in the world is a terrorist when they're not. In fact very few are. They need you to think that way so you'll continue to support the war.

 

[Joe Williams]

What? Having troops in Afghanistan has no bearing whatsoever on suicide bombers here. They're not an army! Anyone can decide to support their cause and be a suicide bomber.

Maybe it hasn't happened here yet because the media propaganda wants you to believe that every single Muslim in the world is a terrorist when they're not. In fact very few are. They need you to think that way so you'll continue to support the war.

Where do you get the idea that very few are? Can you support that claim? Muslim terrorists have raised up a literal army, they feed, arm, clothe, and support troops waging a worldwide war. They have subverted and taken over multiple governments.

Please, show me how "very few" are terrorists, when they have accomplished so much on only a couple decades.

 

[jeremy]

What? Having troops in Afghanistan has no bearing whatsoever on suicide bombers here. They're not an army! Anyone can decide to support their cause and be a suicide bomber.

Maybe it hasn't happened here yet because the media propaganda wants you to believe that every single Muslim in the world is a terrorist when they're not. In fact very few are. They need you to think that way so you'll continue to support the war.

Uhhh...

They are an army. Not a uniformed one. Not a standing one. Not a well trained one. However an Army they are. They are a guerrilla organization. They are very efficeint in the type of fighting that they have chosen to utilize. Just because they are not an uniformed army does not mean they are not a threat. They are a very serious threat. A very capable threat. It is a shame that our politicians and media do not understand this and fail to relay this to the public.

Yes we know not all Muslims are evil and bent on Global Domination. Can we please leave Religion out of this.

 

[CombatVet]

WAT?

War on Terror I do believe.

 

[Designer99]

Where do you get the idea that very few are? Can you support that claim? Muslim terrorists have raised up a literal army, they feed, arm, clothe, and support troops waging a worldwide war. They have subverted and taken over multiple governments.

Please, show me how "very few" are terrorists, when they have accomplished so much on only a couple decades.

Think about it Joe. Do you really believe that these people get up everyday and spend all day thinking about killing Americans that are a world away? They have daily lives of monotony just like you do. They have housework and kids to deal with just like you do. How much time do you spend everyday thinking about killing Muslims? I bet it's none, just like the vast majority of Muslims don't think about killing you.

That being said, they're is a very small percentage of Musilms who would be considered extremists. Stereotypes are dangerous.


They're are many articles dealing with the actual amount:

Study: Threat of Muslim-American terrorism in U.S. exaggerated - CNN.com

All Terrorists are Muslims...Except the 94% that Aren't | loonwatch.com


CNN recently published an article entitled Study: Threat of Muslim-American terrorism in U.S. exaggerated; according to a study released by Duke University and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, “the terrorist threat posed by radicalized Muslim-Americans has been exaggerated.”


Yet, Americans continue to live in mortal fear of radical Islam, a fear propagated and inflamed by right wing Islamophobes. If one follows the cable news networks, it seems as if all terrorists are Muslims. It has even become axiomatic in some circles to chant: “Not all Muslims are terrorists, but nearly all terrorists are Muslims.” Muslims and their “leftist dhimmi allies” respond feebly, mentioning Waco as the one counter example, unwittingly affirming the belief that “nearly all terrorists are Muslims.”
But perception is not reality. The data simply does not support such a hasty conclusion. On the FBI’s official website, there exists a chronological list of all terrorist attacks committed on U.S. soil from the year 1980 all the way to 2005. That list can be accessed here (scroll down all the way to the bottom).

Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database


According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%). These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion. These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions, just like Al-Qaeda and company.


Yet notice the disparity in media coverage between the two. It would indeed be very interesting to construct a corresponding pie chart that depicted the level of media coverage of each group. The reason that Muslim apologists and their “leftist dhimmi allies” cannot recall another non-Islamic act of terrorism other than Waco is due to the fact that the media gives menial (if any) coverage to such events. If a terrorist attack does not fit the “Islam is the perennial and existential threat of our times” narrative, it is simply not paid much attention to, which in a circuitous manner reinforces and “proves” the preconceived narrative. It is to such an extent that the average American has no image of his head of any Jewish or Latino terrorist; why should he when he has never even heard of the Jewish Defense League or the Ejercito Popular Boricua Macheteros? Surely what he does not know does not exist!

 

[Designer99]

Uhhh...

They are an army. Not a uniformed one. Not a standing one. Not a well trained one. However an Army they are. They are a guerrilla organization. They are very efficeint in the type of fighting that they have chosen to utilize. Just because they are not an uniformed army does not mean they are not a threat. They are a very serious threat. A very capable threat. It is a shame that our politicians and media do not understand this and fail to relay this to the public.

Yes we know not all Muslims are evil and bent on Global Domination. Can we please leave Religion out of this.

They are not an army in any traditional since.

One lone unassuming guy who has lived in any US city for over 20 years can at any point decide he wants to be sympathetic to Al Qaeda and detonate a bomb. You can put as many troops into Afghanistan as you want and you still won't have any effect on the lone suicide bomber here.

That is why "taking the fight there so they don't fight us here" doesn't really work.

 

[USMC_0311]

I would like to see that graph based on actual American deaths by terrorist.

Yea we have a lot of unassuming guys detonateing bombs here in the US we should focus on them and not Al Qaeda or Osma Binladen.

I think its working better then waiting on them unassuming guys to go off the deep end. I appreciate the sacrifice these men and women are making for us everyday.

They are not an army in any traditional since.

One lone unassuming guy who has lived in any US city for over 20 years can at any point decide he wants to be sympathetic to Al Qaeda and detonate a bomb. You can put as many troops into Afghanistan as you want and you still won't have any effect on the lone suicide bomber here.

That is why "taking the fight there so they don't fight us here" doesn't really work.

 

[flatlander]

Sore subject, 12 years of service, two tours in the middle east. I'll keep my opinion to myself

Same same me but with 9 more years service. REALLY want to say something that would get me banned to the OP so I'll just not say anything.

Bob

 

[kedie]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] We know he will die, not as a hero, but as a dupe. [/FONT]

If this artical had any validity, it would have all been lost with this statement.

Enduring Freedom Casualties - Special Reports

I guess these men and women were duped into believing in something bigger than themselves. Duped into thinking that they could somehow make a difference in this world. Conned into thinking that duty, honor, and country are more than just words.

I don't care what some assbag with a PHD tries to tell me. These people are all heros.


(That quote came from the article, not from ATF Consumer. Just wanted to avoid any confusion.)

 

[HICKMAN]

In his 1996 "Declaration of War Against the Americans," Osama bin Laden cited the U.S. retreat from Somalia in 1993: "You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew. The extent of your impotence and weaknesses has become very clear," he said. “When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature they will like the strong horse.”
Judging magnanimity as weakness, the half-educated in al Qaeda embraced the concept that the "soft" West was not prepared to defend its strategic interests. This perception became provocative. From Beirut to the Hezbollah kidnappings and executions of American diplomats in the 1980s, to Somalia (1993), to the first attempt to bring down the World Trade Center (1993), to the Khobar Towers (1996) and African embassy bombings (1998) to the USS Cole (2000), America responded with lawyers not marines to deal with "criminals" not terrorists. Our enemies and Middle Eastern "friends" alike sneered at us. The aid we gave to them only convinced them further that we were weak and ripe for an Islamic takeover. The perception grew that the West not only could not fight, but would not fight. We became viewed as a great power who spoke in principled terms, but who was adverse to spend blood and treasure in pursuit of them.

Al Qaeda and its global Islamic terrorist affiliates came to the conclusion that America's weakness stemmed from a post-Vietnam conviction that required future wars to be short, antiseptic and casualty free. Bin Laden summed up his perception of Americans in an interview with ABC News reporter John Miller, published in Esquire in 1998: “After leaving Afghanistan, the Muslim fighters headed for Somalia and prepared for a long battle thinking that the Americans were like the Russians. The youth were surprised at the low morale of the American soldiers and realized, more than before, that the American soldier was a paper tiger and after a few blows……would run in defeat.”

In another portion of that interview, Miller quotes bin Laden as saying: "We have seen in the last decade the decline of American power and the weakness of the American soldier who is ready to wage Cold Wars, but unprepared to fight long wars. This was proven in Beirut in 1983 when the Marines fled after two explosions. It also proves they can run in less than 24 hours, and this was also repeated in Somalia (in 1993)." Three years later, on September 11, 2001, al Qaeda turned our planes into cruise missiles and murdered three thousand Americans in New York, Washington and the fields of Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

small excerpt from Paper Tiger by Mark Silverberg

While I disagree about the loss of the American's soldiers WILL to fight, I think it's more the will to fight under stupid ROE rules. Marcus Littrell lost his whole SEAL team because he was unwilling to do what was needed, fearing opinions and trials.

We refuse to fight to win, more worried about what people think instead of what needs to be done. The Russians and the Mossad get it done, regardless of opinion.

Bin Laden is wrong though, it isn't our soldier that's unwilling to fight, it's our government.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Where do you get the idea that very few are? Can you support that claim? Muslim terrorists have raised up a literal army, they feed, arm, clothe, and support troops waging a worldwide war. They have subverted and taken over multiple governments.

Please, show me how "very few" are terrorists, when they have accomplished so much on only a couple decades.

Sounds just like the US.