a rant that will probably tick quite a few off regarding Military/LEOs

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  • Blackhawk2001

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    As a part of one of my former careers, I was privileged to escort a couple Medal of Honor recipients to the Indy 500 some years ago (the year the City unveiled its Medal of Honor Monument down on the Canal). None of those folks claimed any special credit for "doing what I had to do", which I also found to be the norm with thousands of other service members doing their jobs over the years I served. While it's true that if you ask most Service members why they are serving, they will tell you they're doing it for the paycheck, or the college fund, or because they like the work, and if you ask a combat trooper why he puts his life on the line, he'll usually say it's for his comrades rather than his country, as others have said upthread, all military personnel are performing one of the most important services for which the federal government has responsibility - the protection and defense of our way of life.

    In the same vein, law enforcement officers and firefighters, whether volunteer or full-time professional, continually place themselves in harm's way in defense of lives and property in our local communities. It really doesn't matter why they choose their particular profession; what does matter is the service itself. This doesn't negate the worth of any other profession or vocation; it doesn't make the surgeon's or the nurse's long duty days any less worthy, nor does it make the truck driver's contribution any less important, but to the extent that they are out in the public eye and subject to public acclaim or criticism (and "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" for their actions) they are as deserving of our acknowledgment as any other service professions. Not all soldiers (speaking generically), police or firefighters live up to our idealistic views of their professions, but that is true of any profession you can name and doesn't negate the value of their service nor the idealistic acclaim we accord to them.
     

    lucky4034

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    Hard to argue against this.

    I don't think anyone would argue against it... and I don't think anyone who joins the military or police do it for a pat on the back either.

    However, the OP asked "why does everyone thank them?" and then goes on to say that people who do are "akin to IDIOTIC IDOLATARY of celebrities."

    Which suggests that anyone who thoroughly appreciates the military and LEOs are misguided?

    Again, you are free to thank whomever you want... some of us recognize the value of servicemen and therefore VOLUNTARILY want to tell them so....

    On Veterans day, I just happened to be at the Casino in New Buffalo and seen a man with a hat that read "Veteran of WWII".... The man was old as dirt, but I still went up, shook his hand and told him thank you and I don't Idol or envy him at all.... but WWII was one of the most significant events in the last 100 years and played a MAJOR roll in shaping the world I consider myself LUCKY and FORTUNATE to be able to live and grow old in... and he played a part in making that happen.

    I may not owe him a debt of gratitude because he Volunteered (maybe he did back them).... but I'm more than happy to GIVE him my gratitude and I don't think I am misguided or brainwashed for doing it.

    When I was in Middle School and High School, I would routinely not even stand for the National Anthem at sporting events because back then I didn't understand it and I knew it was my right not too.

    Now that I'm older and understand it... I stand tall, proud and fortunate....
     

    ghunter

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    I got one. I'm a cop, and I pick defense lawyers as heros. Talk about a thankless job. Yes, they have given me grief in court once or twice, but I would rather have them there and doing that, then not have a defense lawyer if I'm accused of something. Cops get falsely accused of stuff all the time.
     

    MagicKev

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    Something has been swirling around in my grey matter for a while that has really started to irk me.

    Why does the general society place such importance on military and LEOs? It is almost as if godhood status has been bestowed on people that have VOLUNTARILY chosen a dangerous profession. It is akin, IMO, to the idiotic idolatry of celebrities. Not any of the above mentioned professions are forced upon a single soul in the USA. We do not have conscription; have not had a draft since the early 1970s; do not force people into jobs that garner the spotlight. These jobs are CHOICES made at the individual level. Pure and simple.

    Do not get me wrong. I appreciate most of what military and LEOs do for security purposes. I simply refuse to give them any more credit than "job well done" when it is merited.

    Your thoughts?

    Let me use a loose analogy to point out the ridiculousness of the OP, aside from the fact that he has the right to believe and state said things based on this country's volunteers defending said rights.

    I happen to believe that you are a huge pile of steaming poo because you live in Ft Wayne. Now my opinion may change based on whether you live there voluntarily or if you are forced to live there.

    I have other thoughts on this subject. But I want my first one to sink in a bit.
     

    DCM8513

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    Maybe you take some things the wrong way, IDK. Myself, I don't act like I am better than anyone else, and I don't ask for anything special. I was never even comfortable with people thanking me for my service. But when dealing with other people, I don't trust you. I don't want to know you. I don't want to deal with you. I don't like being in public places, and I don't like being in crowds.. All my buddies are the same way. Needless to say, I don't have "friends." I have buddies and I have acquaintances. I am no better than anyone else, I chose my career.

    No disrespect intended. I dont hold anyone higher than myself nor myself higher than anyone else. At the same time, I do respect and am greatful for your service to our country along with many others.
     

    ATOMonkey

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    Just to put a finer point on it, and I just thought of this... May be true, might not.

    Seems like a lot of the flag waving, and thanking people for their service comes more from Natinoalism than Patriotism.

    I also think that if you asked someone to name a living MOH winner, they'd be hard pressed to come up with a name.

    There are plenty of died in the wool, red white and blue heros with more commodations than room on their uniform, that get less air time than whether or not Kim Kardashian is going to date her ex-husband or not.

    Kind of all over the place, but I don't know...it's just weird to me. That, and I really don't like Nationalism.

    I guess my point is that if you're going to stand up and wave the flag, and elevate service members above the rest of society, you should know exactly why you're doing it, and not "just because."
     

    EvilBlackGun

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    "DISPARITY" of force, in numbers too, re: Medal of Honor holders.

    Yet nearly everyone knows other (in-)famous Marines, like Gomer Pyle, Lee Harvey Oswald, and R. Lee Ermey. I suspect there are the same ratio of potential hero-to-monster numbers in LEO ranks, and also in the Human population. Also, one does not "win" the Medal of Honor, one "earns" it. At Howard County Fire Base one year I had the distinct pleasure of having lunch w/ the Medal of Honor Marine who had been invited to the rendezvous. He said that all he was concerned about "at the moment" was running out of ammo. Never any thinking of any future presentation at all Also, the Medal is presented, not awarded. I know very few Vets, men and women who would not have done whatever it took for their unit, no matter how small, to survive.
    What would you like to Wager on that... :popcorn:
     

    iChokePeople

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    lolz...

    Well that's not fair. How about I pick the people we get to ask.

    Come now... to be fair, most of the people you randomly select couldn't find Afghanistan or Iraq on a globe, and you expect them to know things like that? I don't think being able to name living MoH winners is a requirement for saying you genuinely respect, admire or appreciate military/police/firemen/crab fishermen.
     

    fireblade

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    Whats really sad is people who post and make statements like...............(Do not get me wrong. I appreciate most of what military and LEOs do for security purposes. I simply refuse to give them any more credit than "job well done" when it is merited. )

    I know a fellow gun owner who have read this thread who family member were killed in combat i could hear the pain in his voice.....i personally was embarrassed ...and sad...

    A lot of us have did great things in are military or LEO careers and are proud of them .......those who gave there lives ...are the people i hold up to the highest order i respect and honor them every day am alive .....again am sorry if you can't see some have did more then "job well done"

    Spec. Brian J. Leonhardt Hometown: Merrillville,Ind Jan 6th, 2012

    Staff Sgt. Jonathan M. Metzger Indianapolis,Ind Jan 6th, 2012

    Spec. Robert J. Tauteris Jr. Hamlet,Ind Jan 6th, 2012

    Spec. James A. Butz Porter,Ind Sep 28th, 2011

    Pfc. Brett E. Wood Spencer,Ind Sep 9th, 2011

    Thats just 5 of the 136 who have gave everything from Indiana.......yep they are my super stars ...my hero's and they and their family desire all credit and honor we can give them .....to those family member who have lost military or LEO in there family and reading this they hold the highest honor in a lot of American eyes don't lets some keyboard warrior /or Ego driven *******s tell you other wise
     
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    cbseniour

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    I don't think we need to idolize the military or the LEO but they do voluntarily for low pay do work that most of us couldn't or wouldn't if we needed to.

    For myself I came back from Vietnam in an era when we were told not to wear the uniform because it might cause us trouble. I much prefer the way we treat our finest young men and women today to that utter distain and even hatred shown to baby killers like me.
     

    Blackhawk2001

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    I don't think we need to idolize the military or the LEO but they do voluntarily for low pay do work that most of us couldn't or wouldn't if we needed to.

    For myself I came back from Vietnam in an era when we were told not to wear the uniform because it might cause us trouble. I much prefer the way we treat our finest young men and women today to that utter distain and even hatred shown to baby killers like me.

    And, as a matter of national survival, it's vital that we not treat our military personnel as pariahs. When a nation's population will not participate in its own defense, that nation is doomed to fail and disappear from the world stage. There is no difference, in my mind, between "Nationalism" and "Patriotism"'; both imply love of country and a willingness to serve it. However, it is the responsibility of the citizens of a republic such as ours is supposed to be to ensure the foreign policies for which the military is the sword and shield are not contrary to the principles under which the republic was conceived and founded.
     

    hornadylnl

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    And, as a matter of national survival, it's vital that we not treat our military personnel as pariahs. When a nation's population will not participate in its own defense, that nation is doomed to fail and disappear from the world stage. There is no difference, in my mind, between "Nationalism" and "Patriotism"'; both imply love of country and a willingness to serve it. However, it is the responsibility of the citizens of a republic such as ours is supposed to be to ensure the foreign policies for which the military is the sword and shield are not contrary to the principles under which the republic was conceived and founded.

    One could easily argue that an f'ed up foreign policy is equally to or more detrimental to the people willing to fight than how they're treated by society. I'm not going to go fight for liberty for another people who aren't willing to sacrifice their own lives to achieve it. Especially when my government is stripping my liberty from me. I could really care less what the rest of society thinks of me.
     

    Blackhawk2001

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    One could easily argue that an f'ed up foreign policy is equally to or more detrimental to the people willing to fight than how they're treated by society. I'm not going to go fight for liberty for another people who aren't willing to sacrifice their own lives to achieve it. Especially when my government is stripping my liberty from me. I could really care less what the rest of society thinks of me.

    And you completely overlooked my point.
     

    Blackhawk2001

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    The way I read your post, you feel that jacked up foreign policy plays a minor part in people not wanting to serve.

    Nope. But people tend to blame the military for brutality and baby-killing and what-not and denounce anyone who believes in his country and what it stands (or should stand) for - a patriot, if you will. They used to call it "Jingoism" back around the turn of the 20th Century, but nowadays they've so blackened the concept of love of country that they can get away with making "Patriotism" a derogative term.

    Folks who aren't happy with "foreign adventurism" need to take out their spleen on the country's foreign-policy makers, instead of the military personnel who merely serve where they're told, as happened during the latter years of the Vietnam conflict and thereafter just about up to the end of Gulf War I.
     

    Fargo

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    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    As far as the Police go... They are the only people who can deprive you of Life or Liberty simply because you don't conform to some politicians idea of what is "right."

    I was unaware that the police got to execute people and as far as liberty, they can have you held 72 hours before you must be released or a judge must find probable cause for your continued detention. If there was no PC, it is actionable so I think you are overstating that a bit.

    Besides, who elected those "politicians" to rule us? Oh thats right, I think it was "We the People"...

    Malum Prohibitum law has caused a wide rift between law enforcement and the people they're supposed to protect.

    Back when the only laws were malum in se, I'm sure people felt safer knowing the police were around instead of being afraid that they'll be cited for some vague arbitrary infraction.

    Just at what point do you think all laws were malum in se? I'm a pretty keen student of legal history and if you think such a time ever existed outside of John Stewart Mill's fantasy, I think you may be gravely mistaken.


    Let's be honest, the most common contact the public has with law enforcement is traffic citations. That's not exactly going to endear them to the public. Especially since traffic stops are used as fishing expeditions for greater crimes.

    I couldn't agree more; we have a thriving nanny state where pants wetting politicians thing that more guvmint is the answer. However, that is pretty much standard in a society in decline, which IMO ours most certainly is.

    "Those who will not rule themselves will be ruled by others, and harshly" to paraphrase the quote that comes to mind. Remember, we elect those that rule us.

    Best,

    Joe
     
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