A questions about "white collar" felonies and purchasing guns.

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  • 700HPGT

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 13, 2012
    13
    1
    I am new here but frequent several car forums so I will get this out of the way. I did do a search and did not find the answer I was seeking.

    My brother and I were avid hunters with my father growing up and I still am with my father. But in 2004 my brother was convicted of a class D felony (Theft by Deception). He was 23 years old and clearly still being stupid. He conned people on the internet to send products to him he never paid for basically.

    He served no jail time but was on house arrest for 3 months with work release. And probation for 1 year with restitution. He fulfilled all of his sentencing requirements.

    He is now 31 years old, has 3 children, is an Indiana successful business owner, owns a very nice home, never been in any trouble since but a seat belt ticket. He has expressed interest in missing the annual hunting trips we took as children with my father and I still do today.

    So I have started research the last couple days (which has lead me here) about felonies and hunting or buying a long gun. I have read the 2nd Amendment in its entirety and found this section of code.

    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(20)(A)

    (A) any Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust
    violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other
    similar offenses relating to the regulation of business
    practices, or

    (B) any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a
    misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years
    or less.
    What constitutes a conviction of such a crime shall be determined
    in accordance with the law of the jurisdiction in which the
    proceedings were held. Any conviction which has been expunged, or
    set aside or for which a person has been pardoned or has had civil
    rights restored shall not be considered a conviction for purposes
    of this chapter, unless such pardon, expungement, or restoration of
    civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship,
    transport, possess, or receive firearms.
    (21) The term "engaged in the business" means -


    I feel that my brother may fall under this code. But since it did not call out specific felonies and only generalized it I am not sure. I am sure it is written like this on purpose because some states give different names to the name crime. But wanted other opinions.

    I told him yesterday to go and try and buy a rifle and see what they say. I say a long gun only because he has never had any interest in hand guns and never will. The worst is they say "no we can't sell this weapon to you" is my feeling. His feeling is he would be embarrassed by it do to the fact he is a business owner and pretty known locally. (The crime happened several hundred miles away so the locals are not familiar with it.)

    What are your opinions on if he would qualify or not. I am also researching a lawyer for expungement for him as an option.

    Sorry for the long post.
     

    700HPGT

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 13, 2012
    13
    1
    The lawyer route is the one I'll suggest to him. I feel bad for him as my brother and a person because I am sure there are lots of people that were just dumb kids at some point that will carry this type of burden for life.
     

    45fan

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Apr 20, 2011
    2,388
    48
    East central IN
    Speak with an attorney, and see what it would take to get the record expunged. I have know others with more serious crimes than this on their record, and with less time since the offense that have had part or all of their records cleared. That should take care of the situation beyond a doubt.
     

    700HPGT

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 13, 2012
    13
    1
    The attorney called my brother and said the prosecuter has already agreed to take the felony down to a Misdemeanor.

    All he has to do is pay the lawyer and he will file the paper work. Literally took the lawyer 30 minutes.
     

    eldirector

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Apr 29, 2009
    14,677
    113
    Brownsburg, IN
    Wow! So, in less than 4 hours your brother has had his rights to possess a firearm restored? Well, I guess he has to wait for the lawyer to cash his check.... That's pretty impressive!

    Now, get that hunting trip scheduled!
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

    Super Moderator
    Staff member
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    1   0   0
    Mar 22, 2011
    52,057
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    Mitchell
    Wow! So, in less than 4 hours your brother has had his rights to possess a firearm restored? Well, I guess he has to wait for the lawyer to cash his check.... That's pretty impressive!

    Now, get that hunting trip scheduled!

    That is impressive...
     

    700HPGT

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 13, 2012
    13
    1
    Yeah. I thought he was messing with me. He is paying the lawyer Monday. He used the attorney that handled his original case. I'm sure he had some pull with the prosecuter since it is a very small populated county. All in all I am probably just as excited him.
     

    45fan

    Master
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    Apr 20, 2011
    2,388
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    East central IN
    Glad to know they are getting it worked out for him. Sounds like its not going to be too expensive either, I have heard that it has potential to get into the thousands to get a record repaired to restore rights.
     

    target64

    Grandmaster
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    23   0   0
    Apr 22, 2009
    10,153
    149
    West Side
    Not to rain on anyones parade but..IANAL and IIRC
    I do not think the individual will be allowed to purchase a firearm. It seems by the limited data available, the brother will be given AMS or Alternative Misdemeanor Sentencing. This allows the state to originally sentence a person to a felony but after completion of time, probation, rehab or what have you then the individual can petition the court to reduce the sentence to a misdemeanor.
    But, since the original crime generated a felony conviction with the possible sentence of more than a year in jail I would beleive that Federally he would NOT be able to purchase a firearm. Look at ATF form 4473 section 11c.
     

    700HPGT

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 13, 2012
    13
    1
    Not to rain on anyones parade but..IANAL and IIRC
    I do not think the individual will be allowed to purchase a firearm. It seems by the limited data available, the brother will be given AMS or Alternative Misdemeanor Sentencing. This allows the state to originally sentence a person to a felony but after completion of time, probation, rehab or what have you then the individual can petition the court to reduce the sentence to a misdemeanor.
    But, since the original crime generated a felony conviction with the possible sentence of more than a year in jail I would beleive that Federally he would NOT be able to purchase a firearm. Look at ATF form 4473 section 11c.

    I think you may be right. He has an appointment with his lawyer on Thursday to discuss the details. But his lawyer did tell him that his crime would fall under a "white collar" crime and he could possibly purchase a gun now. But no reason to risk it until it has been lessened in my opinion.

    He also may be better off waiting for House Bill 1033 to come into effect on July 1st.

    You can read the short version here: http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/2012/PDF/HB/HB1033.1.pdf
     

    Amishman44

    Master
    Rating - 98.2%
    54   1   0
    Dec 30, 2009
    3,891
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    Woodburn
    Your brother is fortunate...not many get a second chance at possessing firearms! Hopefully he's a) learned from his mistake (which it sounds like he has) and b) appreciates what is happening!

    Enjoy your hunting trip...family and history are definitely worth preserving!
     

    700HPGT

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 13, 2012
    13
    1
    Har har. You're quite the comedian. :):

    It's a procharged 2011 CS/GT.

    Mods:
    D1Sc procharger 11 lbs of boost
    American racing long tubes
    Catted x
    Steeda axle back
    Steeda short throw shifter
    Boss intake

    And fuel supporting mods like pump and injectors. I'll post pictures tomorrow.
     

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