9mm vs. .40 cal

[1milehigher]

Anyone know why a lot of agencies were quick to hop on-board the .40 cal when it came out, but now are switching back to 9mm?

 

[ViperJock]

Because modern 9mm HP ammo does just as well.

 

[1milehigher]

Agreed,and so does +P. But those were available when the .40 cal craze started.

 

[Grelber]

$'s ?

 

[1milehigher]

$? Probably, but that really never stopped the agencies from spending our tax dollars.

 

[chezuki]

 

[lovemachine]

Because they watched this video.

[video=youtube_share;Gsxdk1V8i-M]http://youtu.be/Gsxdk1V8i-M[/video]

 

[1milehigher]

Didn't think the .40 was a "high pressure round."

 

[88E30M50]

My guess is that it's a combination of things. 9mm is cheaper to shoot than .40 and even if the difference is just a penny or two per bullet, the cost in keeping a department trained can add up to a big savings by going with 9mm. Add to that, advances in bullet technology that bring current 9mm up to the level of the older .40 caliber in terms of effectiveness along with 9mm delivering improved shooting scores, and you have a compelling reason to consider going back to 9mm for departmental use. I'm guessing the biggest reasons are cost and improved shooting scores for qualifications. While 9mm may never match the ballistics of a .40, they are coming quite close and are certainly able to get the job done.

 

[jerrob]

My theory is that even LEO's like to have a new gun/caliber every now and then too. We in the public sector aren't stuck carrying the same 'ol gun everyday, so why should they? The 357 wheel guns they carried back in the goog old days made holes in ****, then the 9mm made holes, then the .40 made holes and then back to the 9mm for for a hole reunion. I'd love to see hole technology take us back to the 38 specials, now that's back when holes were holes.

Science and technology were introduced into bullet manufacturing and they figured how to get .40 (or better) performance out of a 9mm...........plus ya usually get a couple extra bullets in the mag.

 

[Que]

Because someone took a class and decided to change for ABC, so DEF followed. When GHI heard that ABC and DEF changed, they figured they knew something they didn't and quickly jumped on the bandwagon. They will all go with .45 in a few years.

 

[9mmfan]

And I almost made a snarly comment. 'Sigh'

 

[1milehigher]

And Yeager is a big mouth. He also hates 1911's.

 

[lovemachine]

And Yeager is a big mouth. He also hates 1911's.

No, he just hates 1911's that aren't Wilson Combat.

 

[EvilElmo]

Quick abbreviation of the long story:

After the Miami shootout the FBI wanted something with more power than 9mm. Lots of R&D later the 10mm was born. However the 10mm was too much for many agents to handle so Smith shortened it to produce what we now know as the 40 S&W. The FBI adopted it and the vast majority of LE agencies around the country followed.

Today, with significant improvements in bullet design the testing now shows that there is no appreciable difference in terms of penetration, expansion, ballistics, etc. between the two calibers. That means there is really no reason for them to stick with the 40 when 9mm offers both higher capacity as well as significantly less wear and tear on the guns.

 

[88E30M50]

Didn't think the .40 was a "high pressure round."

I don't think 'high pressure' is a good way of characterizing a .40. SAAMI specs have both the .40 and 9mm at 35,000 psi and 9mm +P at 38,500 psi. I am wondering if the term 'High Pressure' was coined by folks trying to denigrate the .40 S&W. If they had called it a 'High Energy' round, it would have seemed like much less of a negative than calling it a 'High Pressure' round. The energy is what beats the heck out of a .40 S&W G23 when compared to a G19, not the pressure.

That, and the fact that the Gen 3s use a lighter than optimal recoil spring in the G23 and a heavier than optimal spring in the G19. Spring them both correctly and you might see G23s lasting longer.

 

[1milehigher]

I was just commenting on what Yeager said in his video.

 

[1milehigher]

Quick abbreviation of the long story:

After the Miami shootout the FBI wanted something with more power than 9mm. Lots of R&D later the 10mm was born. However the 10mm was too much for many agents to handle so Smith shortened it to produce what we now know as the 40 S&W. The FBI adopted it and the vast majority of LE agencies around the country followed.

Today, with significant improvements in bullet design the testing now shows that there is no appreciable difference in terms of penetration, expansion, ballistics, etc. between the two calibers. That means there is really no reason for them to stick with the 40 when 9mm offers both higher capacity as well as significantly less wear and tear on the guns.

Hence another reason not to bring a handgun to a rifle fight. Looks like the gov has come full circle since then.

 

[88E30M50]

I was just commenting on what Yeager said in his video.

Sorry, I was pretty much trying to agree with you but it did not come out that way.

 

[1milehigher]

$'s ?

Upon further reflection, I may agree. The 9mm IS a NATO round, so, it is probably a significant savings.