.40 s&w recipe help

[cartmanfan15]

Saw some of these but could not find the right one. Using berrys plated 155 gr bullets and titegroup powder. How much on the load? Found data for jhp and fmj, but can't find much on plated. Loaded some before at 4.7 I think, but forget where we found the data. My press is putting out 5.0 right now so wanted to check before I load. Thanks guys!

 

[lowendgenerator]

I would lean towards the FMJ over the JHP, but if you can find info for lead, I'd take that over both. Where are you looking for this information? I couldn't find Titegroup in either Lyman's 48th (not current, I know) or Speer's manuals.

Some quick googling turned up some results, but nothing I'd quote as "official".

Load info from thektog.org

This post from CalGuns.net is relevant here.

I would bet that 95% of the kaboomed Glocks you see on the internet are 40 caliber loaded with TG. There is not a more dangerous combination in reloading than 40 and TG.

Uber fast/low volume powder + high pressure round = disaster waiting to happen.

And I'm not only talking about accidentally double charging a case. If you're running this load toward the top end it wouldn't take much set-back to push the pressure over the limit.

This was just posted on another reloading forum last week:

This happened at a local UAPSA match. The gun is a Glock 35 that has seen four years of use with light, minor power factor loads, in production division. The shooter decided to use the gun for limited division this year. Happened on round number four of the season.

The load: (Loaded on a Dillon 1050)

Montana gold 180 gr. FP
Winchester small rifle primers
4.6 gr. TiteGroup
Mixed brass
OAL 1.125

The owner of this gun knew what he was doing and was loading on one of the most highly regarded machines available.

 

[cartmanfan15]

Yeah. Found titegroup at 4.7-4.8. Took a while and a lot of digging. My Lyman's reloading didnt have tg either and their site only had fmj info on hodgens site. I had reloaded some before same bullets and powder no issues. Just dont remember the charge. I know the one I used was around the 4.7 range.

 

[ckcollins2003]

I always use the starting load data for what I can find and work my way up to where I like it. With Titegroup you won't have much room to play, so as long as you start low you should be fine.

Hodgdon's website lists a 155gr XTP with a starting load of 5.4 and a max of 5.9 using Titegroup. If your press is throwing 5.0, you'd still probably be a little low but for backyard plinking should be just fine. I actually wouldn't be afraid to up it to 5.4 if I were you just to get better groupings. At a charge of 4.7 gns you're probably only getting about 950 fps velocity. For me that's too slow.

 

[cartmanfan15]

Even for plated bullets? I thought the xtp were for fmj rounds that take more powder.

 

[Broom_jm]

Berry's encourages reloaders to use cast lead bullet data for their plated bullets. Lyman, the cast bullet authority, does not list a load for Titegroup and ~150 grain bullets for the 40S&W. In fact, they don't list TG in ANY of their cast bullet loads, regardless of weight.

I know many pistol reloaders are highly enamored of Titegroup because it takes so little of it for each round, but if you're sacrificing safety, isn't that a false economy? Frankly, you worry me a little, C-man...you say you "think" you were loading 4.7, don't remember where you found that load, and now you're dropping 5.0 grains. That's just sloppy reloading practices, all the way around.

Follow the load in YOUR reloading manual, to the letter. No guessing; no thinking; no "improvising" with Internet data. It might cost you 2 or 3 cents more per round to do it right...why risk it?

 

[ckcollins2003]

Even for plated bullets? I thought the xtp were for fmj rounds that take more powder.

The XTP is a jacketed hollow point bullet. It's not that the jacketed bullets "require" more powder, but you can run jacketed bullets at a higher velocity and still achieve good accuracy. Plated bullets simply offer a harder bullet compared to lead bullets because of the copper plating. They don't smoke like cast bullets do, and you can shoot them through a Glock without it gumming up your barrel.

As an example, I load 165gr plated bullets (X-treme) for my .40 S&W. I shoot out of a Glock. I started with 4.6 gns of Titegroup, worked my load up to 5.0 gns of Titegroup and looked for signs of over-pressure as I shot through them. Even the 5.0 shot fine with no signs of over-pressure out of the firearms I tested them out of. Hodgdon lists the starting load for a Sierra Jacketed Hollow Point bullet at 4.6 gns of Titegroup and a max of 5.1 gns.. Because I didn't like the heavy recoil of the heavier loads, I use a load of 4.7 gns. It still shoots good groups, but recoil is minimal for a .40.

If you're new to reloading and don't want to test your loads, I don't blame you. However, by using a minimum load with a very low pressure rating, you won't have any problems. Pressure and velocity are are the important things to keep track of when loading plated bullets (and any other bullet for that matter). You cannot run them (plated bullets) faster than 1500 fps because the copper plating will come off. Also, make sure you're not crimping too much. You can tear through the copper plating and your accuracy is going to be horrible because of having a deformed bullet.

Use a load like your 4.7 gns to start out with. It's well below minimum for a jacketed bullet and it's not going to cause any pressure issues. If it shoots good, use it. Safety is very important, but what are you to do when you can't find load data for the bullet you are using? Improvise. Either start low with what you have, use a different type of bullet, or a different type of powder.

Just make sure you know what to look for.

Edited: Berry's doesn't recommend shooting their bullets at a velocity faster than 1200 fps. X-treme is a little different at 1500 fps. So do not exceed 1200 fps.

 

[Broom_jm]

Safety is very important, but what are you to do when you can't find load data for the bullet you are using? Improvise. Either start low with what you have, use a different type of bullet, or a different type of powder.

Very good advice, CK!

 

[cartmanfan15]

Totally agree with all the advice. I adjusted the rounds that were 5.0 down to 4.7. I will test them out next week. Have a friend who is a member of mcfg do we will go an test them. I know it seems like it but I'm not sloppy in my reloading. I weigh every round, use my case gauge, and always check for bulging cases, cracks, etc. sorry if it seems like there was a lot of guesswork in there but I did check multiple sites an did see the 4.7 as the low and will test them. I would never take a chance with reloads.

 

[ckcollins2003]

Totally agree with all the advice. I adjusted the rounds that were 5.0 down to 4.7. I will test them out next week. Have a friend who is a member of mcfg do we will go an test them. I know it seems like it but I'm not sloppy in my reloading. I weigh every round, use my case gauge, and always check for bulging cases, cracks, etc. sorry if it seems like there was a lot of guesswork in there but I did check multiple sites an did see the 4.7 as the low and will test them. I would never take a chance with reloads.

Let us know how the testing turns out. Without any load data for cast bullets for use with Titegroup in the caliber and weight of bullet you are using, it can be a pain to get started. I always just look at the velocity and pressure rating and go off of that. As long as they are low I know I can at least start with that load and be safe.

Ideally no problems are what you want, but I'd rather have a squib than a blown up pistol.

 

[cartmanfan15]

Will do. Appreciate all the help guys.

 

[Water63]

Late to the party here but I have used Clays and universal with good luck on plated bullets. Another option to look at.

 

[oneshot57]

I am useing barrys 155 rnhb over 6.0 grn of 231 with good results

 

[Leo]

The mainstay for .38 spl shooters used to be Hercules "bullseye" powder. That powder was very high in nitroglycerin and used very little in a load, like 2.7 grains in a case that could hold 10 or more grains. Sloppy reloaders blew up some guns then also.
I have used kegs and kegs of Titegroup since it came out. Maintaining careful loading techniques has always served me well. Even on the Dillon, I watch EVERY powder charge before I set the bullet. I would rather make 300 loads per hour that I have absolute confidence it rather than make 550 loads per hour that may have a surprise in one or more reloaded rounds. I have used Titegroup under the 155 Berry's with good success, but I like the 165 grain bullets better because they are more accurate in my Para and Berettas. Research loads, check and double check everything. NEVER get in a hurry, drink alcohol, argue with the wife, yell at the kids while reloading, at least in the powder handling stage. Good luck

 

[cartmanfan15]

Totally understand. I reload alone in my garage with some music on, check everything, reinspect cases and all that. Trying my first rounds on my own press next week then jumping back in. Got some load data straight from Berrys too since its their plated bullets and they recommend 5.4. Found some other info that recommended 4.7 so I will start there then move it up a little at a time.

 

[Spike_351]

I meant to quote the post with the kaboomed glock but I guess I hit he wrong button, anyways, if the individual was seating his bullets at 1.125 In my own opinion that would make me nervous being on the "hot" side plus If I am not mistaken the OAL on 40. S&W 180gr is 1.130 and I would not suggest going to far away from that, personally I use bullseye or unique with excellent results. Usually I only allow +/- 0.002

 

[blamecharles]

Small rifle primers in i handgun round? Is this common? I havent been reloading long and that caught my eye.

 

[cartmanfan15]

Maybe that's what did it. I have never heard of small rifle primers in a handgun round.

 

[billybob44]

Small Rifle Primers in Handgun loads??

Small rifle primers in i handgun round? Is this common? I havent been reloading long and that caught my eye.

The Small Rifle Primers will work in MOST Small Pistol loads.

Maybe that's what did it. I have never heard of small rifle primers in a handgun round.

I have used Small Rifle Primers in several loads-.357Mag., 9MM, .40 S&W, SP cases in 10MM+.45acp.


Be aware that the SR primers are slightly hotter (back off of charge .1 to .2 grains), and the primer cups are harder-may not "Light Off" with some "Tuned" revolvers.

Back in late '08' when primers were hard to come by, at least for a decent price, I was able to locate some Remington 1 1/2's (Standard Small Rifle Primers).
I worked up several different loads up in the above calibers with good success.
Be aware that SMALL rifle primers will work in small pistol loads-NOT-Small pistol primers in small RIFLE loads.

Also that Large rifle primers will NOT work in large Pistol loads-the LR cups are too deep, and will NOT seat in a large PISTOL load properly.

Now--let all the "Purest" join in the flame on substituting components on hand loads....

I'm just relating what has worked for me...Bill

 

[ckcollins2003]

The Small Rifle Primers will work in MOST Small Pistol loads.



I have used Small Rifle Primers in several loads-.357Mag., 9MM, .40 S&W, SP cases in 10MM+.45acp.


Be aware that the SR primers are slightly hotter (back off of charge .1 to .2 grains), and the primer cups are harder-may not "Light Off" with some "Tuned" revolvers.

Back in late '08' when primers were hard to come by, at least for a decent price, I was able to locate some Remington 1 1/2's (Standard Small Rifle Primers).
I worked up several different loads up in the above calibers with good success.
Be aware that SMALL rifle primers will work in small pistol loads-NOT-Small pistol primers in small RIFLE loads.

Also that Large rifle primers will NOT work in large Pistol loads-the LR cups are too deep, and will NOT seat in a large PISTOL load properly.

Now--let all the "Purest" join in the flame on substituting components on hand loads....

I'm just relating what has worked for me...Bill

180 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Titegroup .400" 1.125" 4.2 877 26,500 PSI 4.7 978 33,300 PSI


While you "could" use small rifle primers in a handgun load if you backed off the powder charge, this guy was almost at max load for a jacketed hollow point. He forgot the most important thing about reloading... safety. I don't understand why you would push your load that's already on the hot side even hotter with a small rifle primer.

So far I've shot about 500 rounds of my handloads, with the combination of Titegroup through my G22. However I'm not dumb enough to load them right up to max load, then shove in a rifle primer.

This guy with the blown up pistol should be blaming himself rather than the powder/cartridge combination. And IMO, the point of showing cartman this load is completely irrelevant since he's not using rifle primers.