38spl problems... Need some help

[87iroc]

My cases come out looking like that on the outside. I just took it as normal in a revolver.

 

[dooshie]

I reload 1000's of 357 and 38sp. let me get this right your shooting a rifle correct. if so maybe u can't shoot 38 sp out of it. second try putting a small roll crimp on your rounds and u might fix the outside of the case from blacking.

 

[dooshie]

My cases come out looking like that on the outside. I just took it as normal in a revolver.

no that's not normal in a revolver. you also should put a small roll crimp. a lot of that is powder that hasn't burned off

 

[87iroc]

Learned something new today. Thanks!

Love the Avatar! Long live the Minions!

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Upon further inspection of the cases and a private discussion with another member, the cases are definitely "laying" in the chamber, which is leaving open space on top of the case and allowing the flash to go back towards the rim. Now I need to figure out if this normal when shooting .38s in the Max or if the chamber was improperly reamed. It also does not answer as to why my primer strikes are hitting way left and the misfires.

Im im going to try shooting some factory .38s and .357s through it to see what the cases look like. I'll report back with my findings.

 

[1775usmarine]

tagged for future interest.

 

[Slow Hand]

Measure the back end of your chamber with some mikes. Or, if you have plug gauges see what the biggest one that will fit is. I'd say your chamber is oversized at least at the rear end. Your firing pin strikes are way too far off center. Where are they hitting; 12-o'clock, 6-o'clock? This may sound stupid, but try one with the rifle upside down and see where it hits. Case diameters should be the same for .38, .357 Mag, and .357 Max. If you can get a .357 or a hotter loaded .38 to fire, measure your fired case and check diameter and see if the expanded case is concentric to the case head. Im going to guess your chamber is oversized. That, along with lower pressure ammonia causing
the blow back and giving you dirty cases.

 

[tfarrell]

Sounds like a job for a gunsmith.

 

[spaniel]

From everything posted, it sounds like the most likely explanation is that whoever reamed that chamber messed up. You will save yourself a lot of headaches by just making a chamber casting - LINK. This would answer a lot of questions for you.

 

[Seancass]

You said you fired some Max cases. Measure the OD of those cases near the rim. It should be along the lines of what slowhand posted. If the chamber was this far over sized, I think you would have ruptured cases. I'm leaning towards it being off center.

Try different primers. Some brands are easier to ignite than others.

Magnum and Maximum rounds should not produce the burn marks you see. That is fire seeping backwards when the low pressure round doesn't seal the brass to the chamber walls. Non-issue in 38 special, but as mentioned, it's not ideal and a slight adjustment could produce better results. The roll crimp will hold the bullet in place while the powder gets burning, creates more pressure and seals the case in the chamber before the bullet moves out.

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Ok, I've got a little update. I took 5 of the rounds with primer strikes that did not fire in the handi rifle, and tested them in my dads .38 revolver. All 5 functioned flawlessly. Even the one which had been struck 5 times. I also tried shooting some factory .38s through handi... Nothing. Just a dented primer.

So now I know there is no issue with my ammo, but all problems are coming from the gun. I'm not one to make "special" rounds for a faulty gun by switching primers and special crimps and other sorts of things, because if I have a gun, I want to know I can drop any round in it and it will go bang.

I'm going to continue my research on fixes for my problem, will probably do a chamber casting. If all else fails and I find that the guns chamber is just too big, I will probably ream it to .35rem, or .358 hoosier if it will handle the pressure.

 

[Slow Hand]

another possibility would be to bore it bigger, then make a sleeve, either soldered or welded in place and rechamber that. Its not an easy project, but I know guys who have done it. Heck, one of my buddies did it to a DeWatted Lahti 20mm anti tank rifle! He made the insert a few thousandths big and heated the chamber with a torch and froze the insert with liquid nitrogen. Slipped them together and they were locked solid once they equalized temps! I know it worked because I shot it!!

 

[Broom_jm]

Ok, I've got a little update. I took 5 of the rounds with primer strikes that did not fire in the handi rifle, and tested them in my dads .38 revolver. All 5 functioned flawlessly. Even the one which had been struck 5 times. I also tried shooting some factory .38s through handi... Nothing. Just a dented primer.

So now I know there is no issue with my ammo, but all problems are coming from the gun. I'm not one to make "special" rounds for a faulty gun by switching primers and special crimps and other sorts of things, because if I have a gun, I want to know I can drop any round in it and it will go bang.

I'm going to continue my research on fixes for my problem, will probably do a chamber casting. If all else fails and I find that the guns chamber is just too big, I will probably ream it to .35rem, or .358 hoosier if it will handle the pressure.

Contact David White, of D&T Custom Gunworks. http://www.dandtcustomgunworks.com/

Nobody on the planet knows more about fixing an H&R than he does. He'll give you options on how to fix the existing barrel, which I'm almost certain has been reamed badly off-center. Good luck and let us know how things go.

 

[ctbreitwieser]

another possibility would be to bore it bigger, then make a sleeve, either soldered or welded in place and rechamber that. Its not an easy project, but I know guys who have done it. Heck, one of my buddies did it to a DeWatted Lahti 20mm anti tank rifle! He made the insert a few thousandths big and heated the chamber with a torch and froze the insert with liquid nitrogen. Slipped them together and they were locked solid once they equalized temps! I know it worked because I shot it!!

I thought about that as well. Another option would be to drill it out and barrel line it, then make it a dedicated .38spl since my main reason for the gun was shooting suppressed .38s

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Contact David White, of D&T Custom Gunworks. Custom Gunwork by David White

Nobody on the planet knows more about fixing an H&R than he does. He'll give you options on how to fix the existing barrel, which I'm almost certain has been reamed badly off-center. Good luck and let us know how things go.

Thanks for that link

 

[Broom_jm]

Thanks for that link

No problem. One thing David may suggest is using the existing barrel as a "stub", which is essentially something to screw a new barrel into so he can cut a proper chamber.

BTW - He has done some amazing things with the 357 MAX, including the most exhaustive bullet testing you'll find anywhere. Check the forums and you'll find the links.

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Been awhile, but I have an update. I talked to the owner of the Gunshop I work at, and he told me he used to fix many H&Rs that had a similar problem with misfiring. He told me remove the leading edge of the hammer and this would allow the firing pin to stick out further when firing due to the hammer moving farther forward. I took just a small amount off and tested on some empty primed brass. They all popped. I've since fired 18 loaded rounds through the gun without any problems, so I'm going to assume that this fixed the issue.

 

[Slow Hand]

Thats a handy trick to know. I'm not sure I'd want to do it in max pressure .357's but since your main intent is suppressed .38's it sounds like you are good to go!

 

[mac45]

Glad it was an easy fix.
Thanks for the follow up.

 

[jglevyjr]

I'm curious to know if the cases still have a lot of discoloration. It's one thing to set off the primers, but another thing to know if the cases seal properly in the chamber to prevent blowback.