22-250 for long range?

[tgallmey]

I was looking at bullet drop tables and I noticed that 22-250 is really flat shooting. Would it be a good choice for long range shooting compared to say a 308. I would be afraid of what the lack of bullet weight would do in the wind.

 

[soupy]

For long range you want a high ballistic coefficient bullet. High b.c. bullets take a fast twist barrel. My 9 twist 223 shoots up to 75 gr. hpbt, b.c. of .395. Compared to my 6.5 bullet at .580 b.c.. .224 cal. bullet hits can be hard to see past 600 yards even on white painted steel. .224 cal. is cheaper to shoot.

 

[snapping turtle]

In it's day the 22-250 was a real good long range coyote gun. It still is. If you want to go up to the 1000 yard mark you are going to want one of the 6.5 cal wildcats it seems they are the ones winning the matches lately.

The 7mm mag has a nice straight path also.

 

[upchurch67]

Soupy - b.c. in and of itself does not dictate twist rate. Bullet length in caliber does. A longer bullet in a given caliber requires a faster twist rate to properly stabilize. You may have seen the link to b.c. because typically heavier bullets in the same caliber have a higher b.c. than lighter bullets. And heavier bullets are longer than lighter bullets in the same caliber. Thus it seems related to b.c.
A body moving through a fluid, air in this case, is stabilized when the center of pressure is behind the center of gravity. This is why the fletchings on a arrow are located at the rear of the arrow and not the front. The fletchings move the center of pressure to the rear of the arrow.
With conical bullets, the center of gravity is ALWAYS to the rear of the center of pressure. So stabilization is achieved by spinning the bullet. The more rearward the center of gravity is moved, the faster we must spin the bullet. This is why longer bullets in a given caliber must have a higher twist rate in order to stabilize.

 

[03A3]

A .22-250 is no match for a 7.62x51, especially in a wind.

My old '70's era Remington .22-250 has a slow twist. What it is exactly I don't remember right now. 55 grain is optimum, but you can get by with some (most) 62 grain bullets. I'm wanting to try the 65 grain Sierra but that's one of those projects that keeps getting put on the back burner.
I have been seeing newer rifles with faster twist that should do well with heavier bullets. I wish I had one as I've been wanting to try the heavier bullets in this cartridge. I'm assuming that with the right load the accuracy would still be there.
My theory is that if the heavier .224" bullets are good in 5.56x45, they should work in the .22-250, while delivering a lot more energy with a flatter trajectory than the 5.56x45. It sounds like a winner to me.
Time for a cold shower, I'm about to talk myself into a new bolt action rifle. Where's the "Buy Now" button?

 

[rimfire_crazed]

Compared to a .222 or a .223, yes - it's much flatter shooting. Depending on your load and individual rifle characteristics, you might be able to hit critters at 450 with little to no holdover.

A long range MATCH round, it is not - At least anymore. At those ranges it's all about bucking the wind and staying in the air. It used to dominate the 200 yard benchrest field, though.

 

[Broom_jm]

It really depends on what you mean by "long-range shooting". Are you talking about 350 yard shots on coyotes or other varmints? Are you talking about 600 yard benchrest competitions? Until you define your goals, it's hard to know if a given cartridge is going to be suitable. For all but the very longest shots on varmints the 22-250 is superb. For truly long-range match shooting, none of the 22's can compete with the higher BC of the larger calibers; specifically 6.5mm and .308".

 

[Yeah]

As long as we are being picky, bullet length and caliber don't strictly dictate twist requirements, as velocity plays a part as well. Both low and high.

And much to the surprise of 308 Win fans, drop and drift of a properly loaded 22-250 will spank all but the cream of the cream 308s. The SAMMI version will get a 75 AMax to 3325 with little difficulty, and in a 5 MPH wind you'll just be breaking the 40" drift mark at 1000 yards. That isn't great, but 308 Winchesters envy it.

 

[Madmax]

I know that you are talking more money per shot but I really like the way a 7mm mag goes down the pike. Check the ballistics...close to 30 cal but flat shooting.

 

[upchurch67]

As long as we are being picky, bullet length and caliber don't strictly dictate twist requirements, as velocity plays a part as well. Both low and high.

Excellent point. As muzzle velocity increases in a given twist, so does the gyroscopic inertia.

 

[Yeah]

Both low and high....

 

[upchurch67]

Hmmmm....Interesting curve. I don't quite get the physics behind it though. I am assuming something to do with the sound barrier. Care to comment? Also, what program is that from?

 

[lon]

Soupy - b.c. in and of itself does not dictate twist rate. Bullet length in caliber does. A longer bullet in a given caliber requires a faster twist rate to properly stabilize. You may have seen the link to b.c. because typically heavier bullets in the same caliber have a higher b.c. than lighter bullets. And heavier bullets are longer than lighter bullets in the same caliber. Thus it seems related to b.c.
A body moving through a fluid, air in this case, is stabilized when the center of pressure is behind the center of gravity. This is why the fletchings on a arrow are located at the rear of the arrow and not the front. The fletchings move the center of pressure to the rear of the arrow.
With conical bullets, the center of gravity is ALWAYS to the rear of the center of pressure. So stabilization is achieved by spinning the bullet. The more rearward the center of gravity is moved, the faster we must spin the bullet. This is why longer bullets in a given caliber must have a higher twist rate in order to stabilize.

I've always read that the length of the bullet dictates the rate of twist, but never knew why. Thanks for the great explanation.

I'm guessing that the center of pressure on a bullet is always the tip??

 

[upchurch67]

You can find the center of gravity of an object by simply trying to balance that object on a dowel or pin. It is the point at which the affects of gravity on the object are in balance. The object stays perfectly perpendicular to the direction of the force of gravity.
Center of pressure is the same concept. Only the affects of pressure on the object moving through a fluid are in balance. It is related to sectional surface area of the object. Consider a cardboard cutout of the lateral section of a bullet. You could find the center of pressure by attaching a string to either side of the cutout and applying low velocity air to the cutout. If the cutout stayed perfectly perpendicular to the direction of air movement, then the string is located at the center of pressure.
So, I think that the center of pressure would not likely be the tip of the bullet.
You have two points at different locations on the bullet. Center of gravity and center of pressure. The bullet wants to rotate about the center of gravity and it wants the center of pressure to the rear. This creates longitudinal torque. The greater the distance between these two points (the longer the bullet), the greater the torque.
The spinning of the bullet creates rotational torque. As long as rotational torque is greater than longitudinal torque, the bullet is stabilized.

 

[tgallmey]

This is a great read for me as I really know nothing bout long range lol I shoot handguns and shotguns mostly. Kind of thought about getting into some distance shooting

 

[lon]

You can find the center of gravity of an object by simply trying to balance that object on a dowel or pin. It is the point at which the affects of gravity on the object are in balance. The object stays perfectly perpendicular to the direction of the force of gravity.
Center of pressure is the same concept. Only the affects of pressure on the object moving through a fluid are in balance. It is related to sectional surface area of the object. Consider a cardboard cutout of the lateral section of a bullet. You could find the center of pressure by attaching a string to either side of the cutout and applying low velocity air to the cutout. If the cutout stayed perfectly perpendicular to the direction of air movement, then the string is located at the center of pressure.
So, I think that the center of pressure would not likely be the tip of the bullet.
You have two points at different locations on the bullet. Center of gravity and center of pressure. The bullet wants to rotate about the center of gravity and it wants the center of pressure to the rear. This creates longitudinal torque. The greater the distance between these two points (the longer the bullet), the greater the torque.
The spinning of the bullet creates rotational torque. As long as rotational torque is greater than longitudinal torque, the bullet is stabilized.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Yeah]

Hmmmm....Interesting curve. I don't quite get the physics behind it though. I am assuming something to do with the sound barrier. Care to comment? Also, what program is that from?

Yes, sound barrier and pressure fore and aft.

The program is Recreational Software Inc's Shooting Lab. Same people who make the CED chronograph.

 

[Whitsettd8]

Wow my head hurts. I have a question and I'm going to try and word it sound I don't sound like a complete idiot.
I have a 22-250 26 inch barrel with a 1-12 twist. The gun seems to prefer 45 grain projectiles. Where I hunt and shoot it's very windy open flat fields. How much can a load be tweaked to shoot a heavier grain bullet or a you limited by twist rate. Can a 1-12 barrel stabilize a heavy 62 grain bullet by adjusting velocities or am I better of with a new barrel.

 

[Yeah]

There are several 62ish grain 0.224" bullets with lengths around 0.75" and below. Say a Sierra 1370 or a Norma 65705 would stabilize in a 12" SAMMI 22-250, which should get them to 3500 fps easily

Longer 62s, like an SS109 spec bullet at 0.869" or a Speer 1050 at 0.935", you can't stabilize. Since length a BC are fairly well correlated, you won't be improving your situation by going with the short 62s. I'd be looking to get 50 VMax crowding 4k fps.

 

[Broom_jm]

Wow my head hurts. I have a question and I'm going to try and word it sound I don't sound like a complete idiot.
I have a 22-250 26 inch barrel with a 1-12 twist. The gun seems to prefer 45 grain projectiles. Where I hunt and shoot it's very windy open flat fields. How much can a load be tweaked to shoot a heavier grain bullet or a you limited by twist rate. Can a 1-12 barrel stabilize a heavy 62 grain bullet by adjusting velocities or am I better of with a new barrel.

Suffice to say that your 1-12 twist will stabilize bullets up to ~60 grains, which will definitely give you less wind drift on longer shots. Those light-for-caliber 45 grain pills are not typically the best choice in the hotter 22's. A flat-base 55 grain bullet can almost certainly be tuned (with charge weight or seating depth) to give you very good accuracy and you'll be better served with them in windy conditions, versus the 45 grainers.