20ga Home Defense Ammo

[LtScott14]

The Rem 870, 20 ga, sounds like the right application for HD. My wife keeps my 20 ga Double Barrel handy(Coach style-short barrels) and has had to use it a couple of times.
We get raccoons, possums, squirrels trying to live in my barn, and don't like to leave.
I believe it was standard bird shot(like #7), but it is effective. I have deer slugs, and just found some #4.
Pump shotguns are a great tool for their design. Can she learn to "rack" the action smoothly? A couple of range sessions would help anyone new to shotguns. They aren't that tough to use. Good luck.

 

[Cat-Herder]

I keep a 20gauge pump gun loaded with deer slugs for any 2-legged intruders. My ladies handle it just fine. I'm pretty sure a 12gauge magnum would be overboard for them. They don't like any of my 308s, or mosins....

 

[nkdninjafrog]

since its going to be in the house, you definitely want small pellets. no need to be blasting holes through all the walls of the house. birdshot probably would be the best bet, especially in an apartment complex where penetrating a wall could mean killing a neighbor. gotta remember, humans tend to be fairly fragile creatures. you hit someone with a shotshell full of birdshot, they're not just gonna shrug it off like nothing happened. and again, you know, the accidentally shooting through a wall and hitting a neighbor thing

 

[pudly]

I keep a 20gauge pump gun loaded with deer slugs for any 2-legged intruders. My ladies handle it just fine.

I hope you are out in the country and no other people end up in rooms behind the perp. Slugs are notorious for serious penetration. It will certainly do a lot of damage when you hit the BG, but will still have a good amount of energy to go through walls.

 

[melensdad]

since its going to be in the house, you definitely want small pellets. no need to be blasting holes through all the walls of the house. birdshot probably would be the best bet, especially in an apartment complex where penetrating a wall could mean killing a neighbor. gotta remember, humans tend to be fairly fragile creatures. you hit someone with a shotshell full of birdshot, they're not just gonna shrug it off like nothing happened. and again, you know, the accidentally shooting through a wall and hitting a neighbor thing

Birdshot has been known to fail completely against humans wearing leather jackets.

 

[pjt]

If we are talking inside the house range here, I'd like to hear from all those who think a leather jacket will protect them. This thread doesn't seem to be about downrange, it is about shooting an intruder across an average room.

 

[melensdad]

If we are talking inside the house range here, I'd like to hear from all those who think a leather jacket will protect them. This thread doesn't seem to be about downrange, it is about shooting an intruder across an average room.

Yes, exactly. Mas Ayoob did studies on all this. Inside the home, self defence distances with shotguns. And yes, a leather coat can slow down birdshot enough so that the attacker can continue the attack without serious injury. He described it as being similar to road rash. I don't recall what size birdshot, maybe #7. He strongly recommended staying away from birdshot.

 

[nkdninjafrog]

Yes, exactly. Mas Ayoob did studies on all this. Inside the home, self defence distances with shotguns. And yes, a leather coat can slow down birdshot enough so that the attacker can continue the attack without serious injury. He described it as being similar to road rash. I don't recall what size birdshot, maybe #7. He strongly recommended staying away from birdshot.

what about the stopping power? you really think if you shoot someone, regardless of size, from across an average sized room that the leather jacket they're wearing is just gonna let them brush off a load of birdshot? even as small as those pellets are, its still gonna hit pretty damn hard.

 

[melensdad]

what about the stopping power? you really think if you shoot someone, regardless of size, from across an average sized room that the leather jacket they're wearing is just gonna let them brush off a load of birdshot? even as small as those pellets are, its still gonna hit pretty damn hard.

Ayoob studied ACTUAL self defense shootings. Birdshot has a documented history of failure to stop people from continuing their aggression.

You are presuming the person being shot is rational. I'd be willing to bet the person being shot is not rational, may be hopped up on Meth or painkillers or some other body/mind numbing drug. There are plenty of examples of druggies be poked with lots of large caliber holes and continuing their attack, a bunch of tiny pellets with minimal to no penetration would be far less effective.

I'd suggest you look up some of the FBI shooting data (actual shootings) as well as some of Massad Ayoob's works on the subject.

You are making presumptions that have been proven to be wrong and yet you still believe them.

 

[cosermann]

Birdshot is for birds (and other light-skinned small game) - hence the name.

Anything that will penetrate a human body sufficiently to cause a physiological (i.e. biological) stop will easily penetrate walls of modern dry-wall construction.

Might birdshot cause a psychological (i.e. mental/behavioral) stop? Sure, but not something to be counted on.

 

[MooreALX]

Well I went to McDonald's guns this weekend, and picked up a couple boxes of 2 3/4" #3 Buck. I think a 3" shell would be too much, so I stayed away from that (wouldn't have fit in the gun regardless). I've taken her shooting twice before, and she's much more comfortable with the shotgun compared any of my handguns (including my small .380). I think it's because she can wrap it into her body, so she feels like she can control it (apparently I'm not the only one she likes to control ).

The other issue, which she and I will figure out what works best, is the 4+1 cocked and locked versus 4 in the tube with no safety. This gun has the trigger button safety, which I've concerned about her being able to use in a high stress situation. Basically it comes down to fine motor skills with 5 rounds, or gross motor skills with 4 rounds.