SirRealism
Master
- Nov 17, 2008
- 1,779
- 38
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Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
100% PRO GUN for US SENATE REBECCA SINK-BURIS ANSWERS GOA QUESTIONNAIRE
- Thread starter Duncan
- Start date
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Well I have to admit I have run across a couple of people that have some socialist ideas ( I assume that some of these type of people are in the Republican and for sure in the Democrat party ) ... anarchists .. I have not met any at the state level in the Libertarian party ..
I'm sorry I must have missed meeting you at the last Indiana Libertarian Convention earlier this year ... Did we meet ?
thanks
Duncan
Id still like to hear on this board Rebecca give her views on the borders and immigration. I think that possibly many folks do not realize the Libertarians are against border control and favor no real controls on illegal immitgration.
THAT is such a huge issue that the Libertarians are so WRONG on that it drives away potential supporters in droves.
Id like to support them but this is such an important issue in this country there is no way I can support them.
IF libertarians want no government control then the problems associated with illegals would be even worse.
Even more of them on the road with no liscense or insurance and even less of a clue of the current rules of the road. More accidents and deaths.
Even more of them clogging up the criminal system, even more of them saturating our emergency rooms, even more of them vieing for gubment handouts, and even more of them willing to work at construction and other lower paying jobs for pennies on the dollar that they dont pay taxes on.
We all know the problems of illegals and unfortunatly the Libertarians dont see the problem.
THAT is such a huge issue that the Libertarians are so WRONG on that it drives away potential supporters in droves.
Id like to support them but this is such an important issue in this country there is no way I can support them.
IF libertarians want no government control then the problems associated with illegals would be even worse.
Even more of them on the road with no liscense or insurance and even less of a clue of the current rules of the road. More accidents and deaths.
Even more of them clogging up the criminal system, even more of them saturating our emergency rooms, even more of them vieing for gubment handouts, and even more of them willing to work at construction and other lower paying jobs for pennies on the dollar that they dont pay taxes on.
We all know the problems of illegals and unfortunatly the Libertarians dont see the problem.
IndyMonkey
Shooter
- Jan 15, 2010
- 6,835
- 36
From someone that has been directly affected by ilLegals working in the roofing trade it seems like the libertiarian party is not the one to support.
Why not actually take a look at what the Libertarian Party Platform says on the border issue? I would be willing to bet that Rebecca doesn't deviate far from this position.
via LP Platform
via LP Platform
She has a position on the border issue on her website .
Someone else posted a comment , I assume in respect to the her web posting , and was not happy with it . Neither was I . I called Rebecca and asked her about it ... I got a different answer than I perceived from her website . ( She does not have an open boarders position. )
She did not write it herself .... an aide / webmaster did it .
She has told me she is going to look at it and I assume that there is a rewrite
in the making.
Well this is not the facts . Now I know that I , Rebecca and other Libertarians are not for open boarders ... I am sure we can find some that are ... the R's and D's have them to ... I may put my foot in my mouth .. but let's go to the LP national site ... hell I have not even read it since the national convention ...
Immigration | Libertarian Party
migration Law Should Reflect Our Dynamic Labor Market
By Daniel T. Griswold
Among its many virtues, America is a nation where laws are generally reasonable, respected and impartially enforced. A glaring exception is immigration.
Today an estimated 12 million people live in the U.S. without authorization, 1.6 million in Texas alone, and that number grows every year. Many Americans understandably want the rule of law restored to a system where law-breaking has become the norm.
The fundamental choice before us is whether we redouble our efforts to enforce existing immigration law, whatever the cost, or whether we change the law to match the reality of a dynamic society and labor market.
Low-skilled immigrants cross the Mexican border illegally or overstay their visas for a simple reason: There are jobs waiting here for them to fill, especially in Texas and other, faster growing states. Each year our economy creates hundreds of thousands of net new jobs — in such sectors as retail, cleaning, food preparation, construction and tourism — that require only short-term, on-the-job training.
At the same time, the supply of Americans who have traditionally filled many of those jobs — those without a high school diploma — continues to shrink. Their numbers have declined by 4.6 million in the past decade, as the typical American worker becomes older and better educated.
Yet our system offers no legal channel for anywhere near a sufficient number of peaceful, hardworking immigrants to legally enter the United States even temporarily to fill this growing gap. The predictable result is illegal immigration.
In response, we can spend billions more to beef up border patrols. We can erect hundreds of miles of ugly fence slicing through private property along the Rio Grande. We can raid more discount stores and chicken-processing plants from coast to coast. We can require all Americans to carry a national ID card and seek approval from a government computer before starting a new job.
Or we can change our immigration law to more closely conform to how millions of normal people actually live.
Crossing an international border to support your family and pursue dreams of a better life is not an inherently criminal act like rape or robbery. If it were, then most of us descend from criminals. As the people of Texas know well, the large majority of illegal immigrants are not bad people. They are people who value family, faith and hard work trying to live within a bad system.
When large numbers of otherwise decent people routinely violate a law, the law itself is probably the problem. To argue that illegal immigration is bad merely because it is illegal avoids the threshold question of whether we should prohibit this kind of immigration in the first place.
We've faced this choice on immigration before. In the early 1950s, federal agents were making a million arrests a year along the Mexican border. In response, Congress ramped up enforcement, but it also dramatically increased the number of visas available through the Bracero guest worker program. As a result, apprehensions at the border dropped 95 percent. By changing the law, we transformed an illegal inflow of workers into a legal flow.
For those workers already in the United States illegally, we can avoid "amnesty" and still offer a pathway out of the underground economy. Newly legalized workers can be assessed fines and back taxes and serve probation befitting the misdemeanor they've committed. They can be required to take their place at the back of the line should they eventually apply for permanent residency.
The fatal flaw of the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act was not that it offered legal status to workers already here but that it made no provision for future workers to enter legally.
Immigration is not the only area of American life where a misguided law has collided with reality. In the 1920s and '30s, Prohibition turned millions of otherwise law-abiding Americans into lawbreakers and spawned an underworld of moon-shining, boot-legging and related criminal activity. (Sound familiar?) We eventually made the right choice to tax and regulate alcohol rather than prohibit it.
In the 19th century, America's frontier was settled largely by illegal squatters. In his influential book on property rights, The Mystery of Capital, economist Hernando de Soto describes how these so-called extralegals began to farm, mine and otherwise improve land to which they did not have strict legal title. After failed attempts by the authorities to destroy their cabins and evict them, federal and state officials finally recognized reality, changed the laws, declared amnesty and issued legal documents conferring title to the land the settlers had improved.
As Mr. de Soto wisely concluded: "The law must be compatible with how people actually arrange their lives." That must be a guiding principle when Congress returns to the important task of fixing our immigration laws.
------
Daniel Griswold the is director of the Cato Institute's Center for Trade Policy Studies. For a copy of the original article, please visit Cato's Web site here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it sounds like it's about immigration reform .
Not open boarders but not Operation Wetback either ... I would not have a problem with some Operation Wetback put into place .. but that is me .. not the party .
The Libertarian Party of Indiana has not position since it is a national issue :
About
Property Tax Repeal/Reform
Support for Small Business
Electoral Reform
Defense of Private Property
We stand for school choice.
We stand for a true free market economy, which is self regulating.
We stand for state sovereignty,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A bunch of people here have opinions and some preconceived Ideas of the mindset and philosophy
of Libertarians ... and the party .
I suggest that people read the Indiana Libertarian and national Lib. site ;
Libertarian Party | Maximum Freedom, Minimum Government
Libertarian Party of Indiana | Official LPIN Website
then start tearing our a$$ up .
Hey I don't agree with all that " national " says ... I liked the older plank on the 2nd instead of the new one .
The old one was stronger in statement ... no BATF .
1.6 Self-Defense
The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights — life, liberty, and justly acquired
property — against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by
any other individual or group. We affirm the individual right recognized by the Second Amendment
to keep and bear arms, and oppose the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense.
We oppose all laws at any level of government requiring registration of, or restricting, the
ownership, manufacture, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition.[/B]
Just because you're a party member R , D, or L doesn't mean you support all of the official state
or national platform ... but you are " chained " to it .
The Libertarian Party is not perfect ... it's just closer to the Constitution than the R's and D's .
Thanks
PS If anybody wants to talk to me I'll be at the Brown County fair all week
The Libertarian party of BC has a table ... Rebecca will be there one night too .
thanks
DA
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The libertarians are wishy washy on the current mess IMO. I have yet to see the libertarian party come out STRONGLY in favor of border control. IF I am wrong I will take it back but Id like to see a simply worded statement affirming or denying support of a secure border including as big a fence as can be built and deporting illegals.
photoshooter
Expert
While we're wishing for such things, how about we wish the Democrat and Republican candidates do the same?
[FONT="]Our southern border is out of control and illegal immigration is only part of the problem. But don’t allow the Old Parties to distract you by getting you to blame immigrants for the problems we face. If the politicians had not taxed and spent our country into trillions of dollars of debt, ruining our economy in the process we could have more than enough jobs for everyone and more. The established parties just love to pit one group against another so that they can continue to hand bailouts, tax benefits and legislative favors to their large contributors. Don’t let them use you to keep themselves in power. [/FONT] [FONT="]On Libertarians and Immigration[/FONT]
[FONT="]Indiana has a group of pragmatic Libertarians including myself who realize that open borders are not compatible with a welfare state or with national security concerns in regards to terrorism. [/FONT]
[FONT="]As a Libertarian I often begin looking at a problem by asking what has been done that has aggravated or even created the problem. Often I find that actions that government has taken in the past have caused or worsened an ongoing problem, and that is certainly the case with our immigration and border problems. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Providing welfare to those who are here illegally provides an incentive for border crossing. Making legal immigration take too long and unduly restricting guest worker visas makes people more likely to come here illegally. Just changing these items would go far in improving the situation.
I suggest several actions that would improve the situation, please notice that I said "improve," because nothing we do will ever perfectly solve any problem. At any rate I advocate the following;
Making it much easier to immigrate and to come here to work. Immigration should not be a 10 year process with a mountain of confusing and unnecessary paperwork. Expedite bringing family members together.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Expand work visas so that those who want can go back and forth rather than staying here.
Keep out those who are a danger to the U.S., criminals, and terrorists along with those having dangerous communicable diseases. This should be the emphasis of our border policies.
End government welfare benefits for those who are here illegally. Let churches and private charities take over this role.
De-escalate the insane and failed "War on Drugs" and the violence on the border will be dramatically reduced, just like the crime rate fell after prohibition. Check out Portugal's experience with this policy and you will see they have actually been able to reduce drug use in their country.
Enact the Fair Tax, under which everyone in this country will be paying taxes, legals, illegals, drug dealers and others in the underground economy. Another benefit of this tax system would be the incredible jobs growth that would occur, so much so that people would no longer complain that immigrants are taking American jobs.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Expand free trade, so that there will be more low skill manufacturing taking place south of the border.[/FONT]
[FONT="]End farm subsidies that are putting Mexican farmers out of work by under cutting the prices of farm commodities. These farmers will then be more likely stay in Mexico. [/FONT]
[FONT="]For those already here illegally we can take measures that do not reward them for not following the law. Denying the vote to those who have come here unlawfully would be one type of restriction that we might consider.
[/FONT]
The illegal immigration problem can be dealt with. Don't let this issue distract you from replacing those in office now with people who will renew America's promise of limited government and respect for liberty.
[FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Indiana has a group of pragmatic Libertarians including myself who realize that open borders are not compatible with a welfare state or with national security concerns in regards to terrorism. [/FONT]
[FONT="]As a Libertarian I often begin looking at a problem by asking what has been done that has aggravated or even created the problem. Often I find that actions that government has taken in the past have caused or worsened an ongoing problem, and that is certainly the case with our immigration and border problems. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Providing welfare to those who are here illegally provides an incentive for border crossing. Making legal immigration take too long and unduly restricting guest worker visas makes people more likely to come here illegally. Just changing these items would go far in improving the situation.
I suggest several actions that would improve the situation, please notice that I said "improve," because nothing we do will ever perfectly solve any problem. At any rate I advocate the following;
Making it much easier to immigrate and to come here to work. Immigration should not be a 10 year process with a mountain of confusing and unnecessary paperwork. Expedite bringing family members together.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Expand work visas so that those who want can go back and forth rather than staying here.
Keep out those who are a danger to the U.S., criminals, and terrorists along with those having dangerous communicable diseases. This should be the emphasis of our border policies.
End government welfare benefits for those who are here illegally. Let churches and private charities take over this role.
De-escalate the insane and failed "War on Drugs" and the violence on the border will be dramatically reduced, just like the crime rate fell after prohibition. Check out Portugal's experience with this policy and you will see they have actually been able to reduce drug use in their country.
Enact the Fair Tax, under which everyone in this country will be paying taxes, legals, illegals, drug dealers and others in the underground economy. Another benefit of this tax system would be the incredible jobs growth that would occur, so much so that people would no longer complain that immigrants are taking American jobs.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Expand free trade, so that there will be more low skill manufacturing taking place south of the border.[/FONT]
[FONT="]End farm subsidies that are putting Mexican farmers out of work by under cutting the prices of farm commodities. These farmers will then be more likely stay in Mexico. [/FONT]
[FONT="]For those already here illegally we can take measures that do not reward them for not following the law. Denying the vote to those who have come here unlawfully would be one type of restriction that we might consider.
[/FONT]
The illegal immigration problem can be dealt with. Don't let this issue distract you from replacing those in office now with people who will renew America's promise of limited government and respect for liberty.
[FONT="][/FONT]
I hope Rebecca's response clears that up for you.
Just in case, let me highlight some of her major points:
Rebecca Sink-Burris said:
This screams out to me that she is NOT for open borders.
Rebecca Sink-Burris said:
STOP giving incentives to people who immigrate here illegally.
Rebecca Sink-Burris said:
Does this statement indicate to you that border security is a low priority???
Thank you, Rebecca, for taking the time to respond to this specific request for information!!
Originally Posted by SirRealism
Bu
Rebecca is more defined that the national platform .
Duncan
Wishy washy still. I see no awnser on how to stop the flow, only how to deal with whats here with no real way to stop the continued flow. Yes making it hard to get freebies is a move in the right direction but I still see no stand on securing the border. Sorry.
Since I have stated my opinion and I do support many things the Libertarian party stands for I want to make clear Rebecca seems like a upstanding person. I just cant get past the immigration issue. Thats all I will have to say on the subject.
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hornadylnl
Shooter
- Nov 19, 2008
- 21,505
- 63
Is John Galt on the ballot?
Trying to work with our current system would be like trying to bail water out of a boat where the hole is about 90% of the surface area of the bottom. This ship is going down. You can waste your time and resources with our current government at all levels or you can devote them to getting yourself through what's coming.
90% of our politicians are either corrupt or have no clue what liberty means. 90% of citizens don't have a clue what liberty means. Many of us want to sound pro liberty until their pet project is on the chopping block. This is evidenced by the many on here who defend stealing from others to fund their favorite sports teams. This isn't limited to just professional sports teams. This happens in our local schools every day. This happens with parks, roads, bridges, and on and on.
Trying to work with our current system would be like trying to bail water out of a boat where the hole is about 90% of the surface area of the bottom. This ship is going down. You can waste your time and resources with our current government at all levels or you can devote them to getting yourself through what's coming.
90% of our politicians are either corrupt or have no clue what liberty means. 90% of citizens don't have a clue what liberty means. Many of us want to sound pro liberty until their pet project is on the chopping block. This is evidenced by the many on here who defend stealing from others to fund their favorite sports teams. This isn't limited to just professional sports teams. This happens in our local schools every day. This happens with parks, roads, bridges, and on and on.
SavageEagle
Grandmaster
- Apr 27, 2008
- 19,568
- 38
I do appreciate the response to the immigration issue. However, I find it to be a bit vague myself. Does this mean you do not support securing the border first? Would you support tripling the security on the border before and while implementing the above proposed improvements to the immigration issue?
I'm not so much worried about illegals taking jobs as I am terrorists coming into this Country under the radar.
Rest assured, border security is a high priority,it is my opinion that in order to be more effective in this area we need to deal with illegal immigration using some of the ways I have described. That way we can remove it from the equation so that we can more effectively secure the border from terrorists. In some areas fences make sense, in some areas surveillance drones are a good option, boots on the ground are another part of the strategy. If we don't deal with immigration reform, I don't believe we will be able to secure the border the problems are too intertwined.
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