+1 to Westfield Police

[geronimojoe85]

Have you ever been pulled over and told an officer no or defied his orders? and if so what was the outcome? I can't see an officer just letting you go on your merry way.

How the officer reacts is his decision and when the smoke clears that's what he will have to defend infront of a judge same as my decisions. That's the responsibility of wearing big boy pants.

 

[Hornett]

I am not clear on one thing?
Why did he ask?
Did the OP show him his LTCH or did he just ask out of the blue?
I hope this is not a new standard question that is asked of everyone that is pulled over.

 

[bobzilla]

I am not clear on one thing?
Why did he ask?
Did the OP show him his LTCH or did he just ask out of the blue?
I hope this is not a new standard question that is asked of everyone that is pulled over.

In the 6 times I've been pulled over since 1992, EVERY SINGLE STOP started with that question. 4 different counties, 6 different municipalities. All had the same question.

 

[INGunGuy]

Ok, for all of you that are saying "NO" and I would not allow an LEO to handle my weapon (Pathfinder and Mr. Habib) here is a question.

Have you ever been pulled over and told an officer no or defied his orders? and if so what was the outcome? I can't see an officer just letting you go on your merry way.

We are not advocating breaking the law or defying a LEO's lawful order. What we are attempting to convey is how I and I only speak for myself will not notify a LEO that I am carrying a concealed weapon. If I get pulled over it is for a traffic infraction, and nothing more, my license is current, my tags are current, I have insurance that is current. So a officer comes up and asks me about my current status I will not notify. NOW, if for some ODD REASON that I am asked to step from the vehicle, then and only then will I notify that I am armed, where the weapon is located and how the officer would like to proceed. At that point the ball is in the LEO's court. If my weapon is seized then I will use Washington to bring charges against the officer and department for an illegal weapon seizure. Arguing on the side of the road with a LEO is grounds to be proned out and have a jackboot put in your neck. Save that for his supervisor and the courts.

INGunGuy

 

[PeaShooter]

He asked if I was carrying a gun and I told him that I was.

How did he know? did you give him your LTCH? Was it laying on the seat beside you? I have never been asked this in the few times I have been pulled over. However, if he did ask if you had a gun, it would be a change from "do you have any illlegal drugs or weapons in the car?" question. I can honestly answer that with a "no", but not the OPs version of the question...

 

[emsdial911]

I am not clear on one thing?
Why did he ask?
Did the OP show him his LTCH or did he just ask out of the blue?
I hope this is not a new standard question that is asked of everyone that is pulled over.

Asked out of the blue! No stickers of any sort on my vehicle, no NRA cap or any indication that I carry.

 

[emsdial911]

In the 6 times I've been pulled over since 1992, EVERY SINGLE STOP started with that question. 4 different counties, 6 different municipalities. All had the same question.

I have been pulled over before, I do not produce my LTCH, but never asked about a weapon so this was a new situation for me.
May have been poorly handled and I will learn from my mistakes.

 

[theweakerbrother]

-1 to Perception.

 

[Colt556]

I have been pulled over before, I do not produce my LTCH, but never asked about a weapon so this was a new situation for me.
May have been poorly handled and I will learn from my mistakes.

You did what you thought was right and everything turned out ok. I wouldn't necessarily say you made any mistakes. I've never been asked about weapons so I guess I've been lucky. I hope that trend continues.

 

[INGunGuy]

I have been pulled over before, I do not produce my LTCH, but never asked about a weapon so this was a new situation for me.
May have been poorly handled and I will learn from my mistakes.

I hope I didnt come off as I was thinking you made any mistakes at all. You have to gauge every situation on what is going on at that time and place. You felt it was ok at that time to notify, you did, and all worked out. Did you feel like a child though when he ordered you to "not reload until he as gone"? I mean that is the best part of all, ORDERING you do submit to his authority. Hmmm well again not dumping on you, just something else to think about. You did fine under the situation at hand, and your previous inexperience at dealing with LEO on an armed traffic stop.

One thing that I would like to find out from you, is how did the stop go down, you get pulled over, he comes up to window and immediately asks if you have a gun? Just trying to comprehend the timeline of events.

Take care!

INGunGuy

 

[Mr. Habib]

Ok, for all of you that are saying "NO" and I would not allow an LEO to handle my weapon (Pathfinder and Mr. Habib) here is a question.

Have you ever been pulled over and told an officer no or defied his orders? and if so what was the outcome? I can't see an officer just letting you go on your merry way.

First; the last time I was pulled over was back in 198?. I wasn't carrying at the time and don't remember being ask. Back then I was not as knowledgeable about my rights as I am now and probably would have told them if I was carrying. To clarify my previous post; I do not advocate lying to the police or physically resisting them. However, I do expect them to obey the laws that they are sworn to enforce. Washington v Indiana and Richardson v Indiana make it very clear that they do not have the legal authority to disarm me, or search my property without my consent: ie running the serial number of my firearm; once I have produced a valid LTCH. They also cannot detain me any longer than is necessary to conduct the business of the original stop. If they ask me to step out my vehicle to separate me from my weapon, fine, they can do that under Terry. If they choose to go beyond that authority, then I will do everything within my legal power to ruin them professionally and financially.

 

[emsdial911]

We are not advocating breaking the law or defying a LEO's lawful order. What we are attempting to convey is how I and I only speak for myself will not notify a LEO that I am carrying a concealed weapon. If I get pulled over it is for a traffic infraction, and nothing more, my license is current, my tags are current, I have insurance that is current. So a officer comes up and asks me about my current status I will not notify. NOW, if for some ODD REASON that I am asked to step from the vehicle, then and only then will I notify that I am armed, where the weapon is located and how the officer would like to proceed. At that point the ball is in the LEO's court. If my weapon is seized then I will use Washington to bring charges against the officer and department for an illegal weapon seizure. Arguing on the side of the road with a LEO is grounds to be proned out and have a jackboot put in your neck. Save that for his supervisor and the courts.

INGunGuy

InGunGuy,

I did not notify nor do I have any markings on my clothing, body or vehicle that would indicate that I was carrying. It was a question out of the blue.

Although my feelings are mixed upon the decision of the LEO seizure my weapon in your opinion should I contact the Westfield PD and make a statement about the seizure of my weapon? I definitely want to protect my rights and help convey the rights of others when the situation arises again.

Does a LEO have ANY right to seize a weapon other than obvious criminal act?
Are there any links to improper seizure of a legal weapon?

 

[emsdial911]

First; the last time I was pulled over was back in 198?. I wasn't carrying at the time and don't remember being ask. Back then I was not as knowledgeable about my rights as I am now and probably would have told them if I was carrying. To clarify my previous post; I do not advocate lying to the police or physically resisting them. However, I do expect them to obey the laws that they are sworn to enforce. Washington v Indiana and Richardson v Indiana make it very clear that they do not have the legal authority to disarm me, or search my property without my consent: ie running the serial number of my firearm; once I have produced a valid LTCH. They also cannot detain me any longer than is necessary to conduct the business of the original stop. If they ask me to step out my vehicle to separate me from my weapon, fine, they can do that under Terry. If they choose to go beyond that authority, then I will do everything within my legal power to ruin them professionally and financially.

Thank you. This is what I was looking for.

 

[Hammerhead]

If they ask me to step out my vehicle to separate me from my weapon, fine, they can do that under Terry.

Please remember that Terry also has limitations that require a burden of proof on a crime happening (carrying isn't considered a crime for that standard) or being a danger in order to be used as the basis for removal of a weapon from the owner.

IANAL. TINLA.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Based on other threads here IMO calling and complaining won't get you anywhere. We have learned on here that this behavior is actually being taught in the academy.To your last two questions google Washington v Indiana and Richardson v Indiana. I don't necessarily believe that you did anything wrong either. Everybody has to weigh all of the variables. We weren't there, you were. In the end, you drove away unharmed and are now learning from your experience so that you can make a more informed decision the next time.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Please remember that Terry also has limitations that require a burden of proof on a crime happening (carrying isn't considered a crime for that standard) or being a danger in order to be used as the basis for removal of a weapon from the owner.

IANAL. TINLA.

True. I was assuming that the original traffic stop would constitute the basis for Terry to apply. But I could certainly be wrong about that.Also don't forget that the way the law is written in Indiana, carrying presumed is illegal until a valid LTCH is produced. After that happens though you are exactly right. There is no probable cause to believe that a crime has occurred.

 

[stangman35]

To the OP do you open carry?(I open carry so im not saying u shouldnt) Maybe they saw you while you were out somewhere maybe?

Maybe someone called about a man with a gun and the stop was to look for your gun and not because of a signal.

Heres a question about telling the officer no I dont have a gun.

Wouldnt that be false informing or something and then his partner comes up on the pass side and says hes got a gun and then they are .
Im sure there is some charge they could stick you with if that happend.

 

[emsdial911]

I hope I didnt come off as I was thinking you made any mistakes at all. You have to gauge every situation on what is going on at that time and place. You felt it was ok at that time to notify, you did, and all worked out. Did you feel like a child though when he ordered you to "not reload until he as gone"? I mean that is the best part of all, ORDERING you do submit to his authority. Hmmm well again not dumping on you, just something else to think about. You did fine under the situation at hand, and your previous inexperience at dealing with LEO on an armed traffic stop.

One thing that I would like to find out from you, is how did the stop go down, you get pulled over, he comes up to window and immediately asks if you have a gun? Just trying to comprehend the timeline of events.

Take care!

INGunGuy

He approached the car asked for my DL and Reg. I already had them ready and I handed them to him. I asked what the problem was; I knew I was not speeding because I saw him in front of me. He said that I failed to signal a lane change (probably true). Then he asked if I was carrying a gun, not are there any weapons in the car or anything like that “are you carrying a gun” I said that I was and he asked where, I told him on my right hip. He asked for my LTCH, I handed it to him and that’s when he asked me to use two fingers and hand it to him and he would keep it for the duration of the stop for his safety. His partner who was on the passenger side did move to the driver’s side next to him. Neither seemed concerned, no tension, or hands anywhere near their weapons. His tone didn’t change nor did his demeanor.
Not thinking about the safety aspect of drawing a weapon with two officers standing there or the possibility of an accidental discharge, I complied. I guess you take for granted that they know what they are doing.
Now that I think about it I am glad things turned out the way they did.

Whole stop less than 10min.

 

[emsdial911]

To the OP do you open carry?(I open carry so im not saying u shouldnt) Maybe they saw you while you were out somewhere maybe?

Maybe someone called about a man with a gun and the stop was to look for your gun and not because of a signal.

Heres a question about telling the officer no I dont have a gun.

Wouldnt that be false informing or something and then his partner comes up on the pass side and says hes got a gun and then they are .
Im sure there is some charge they could stick you with if that happend.

I do OC but I was wearing a jacket today and it was tucked under it with my seatbelt on top of it, so there was no way they saw it.
I would think that telling an officer you were not armed and them finding out would not be good.

 

[emsdial911]

What is TERRY?