“Never talk to the Police”

[Alamo]

Denver Colorado

As I understand the story:

Altercation. One guy (1G) shoots the other guy (OG). OG goes to hospital to die, the 1G never speaks to police, sits in jail for a year awaiting trial on 1st degree murder.

1st day of trial, prosecutors notice for first time in body cam footage that OG was had a tactical pen in hand when shot. DA decides they can’t disprove self-defense, dismisses case. (The linked story and a couple news videos on this do NOT indicate the defense brought this up).

According to the department, the defendant did not provide a statement to investigators and did not indicate the victim had an object in his hand at the time of the shooting. He also did not assert a self-defense claim, DPD said.

As paramedics lifted the victim onto a gurney to be transported to the hospital, the DA's office said an officer on scene moved the object that had fallen from the victim's hand. The tactical pen was underneath several items that had been taken from the victim's pocket, according to the DA's office, and therefore the crime scene unit didn't photograph the pen.

The officer who moved the pen was in his 2nd week of field training.

I took defensive training courses from John and Vickie Farnham of Defense Training International. John, who had been a police officer for years, told us (as I recall) police are not our friends, they are looking for bad guys, good guys, and information as to what happened and who is who - especially who needs to be taken into custody. Cops are human and can make mistakes like overlooking evidence. He urged us to to keep our mouths shut when police arrive on scene with the following exception: claim victim status, point out any evidence of your opponent(s) attack, and tell them you’ll be happy to make a full statement when you’ve had a chance to talk to your attorney.

“I’m the one who called the police. That man on the ground tried to kill me. His gun fell under that car. His partner ran that away and dropped a knife into the bushes. I’ll be happy to cooperate and make a full statement after I’ve talked with my attorney.”

This Colorado case sounds exactly like the situation he was talking about.

MSN

Defense Training International – Defense Training International, LLC

defense-training.com

 

[ECS686]

Farnam is always a bundle of knowledge.

Mad Ayoob also touched on this. You will have to say some things, especially if there is evidence that if moved can have or cause negative implications on your side.l in steering it into the justified realm! Most police (as in the responding officers) these days don’t care they are not personally invested they take statements and decide on very limited basis who goes to jail. Detectives are the ones that get into the weeds with it.

The issue is people are often laymen with their vocabulary and what you think you are explaining can be used in a whole different context.

While no doubt you’ll want to get with an attorney or someone that knows the law use of force and how to articulate a full statement you are gonna have to say a few words there is either a seriously injured or deceased person from you they gonna have questions and are looking at it as a homicide or attempted homicide.

 

[Ark]

Of course the DA is projecting responsibility for their incompetence onto the person they victimized with their false charges. Par for the course.

There is no way to "win". If a DA is the kind of person who hates self defenders, they will find some way to nail you. If they can't find a way, they'll make it up. There is no way to head them off, cover all the bases, and make sure you'll walk away.

If they want you, they'll get you, and then rug sweep it when it blows up three years and $250,000 of your money later.

 

[marvin02]

An old thread:

Never talk to the police , period

I was talking to an instructor at the gun club today and he was telling me about this 'strategy'. He said that he relays some of this during his handgun safety course (which is required by the state to get your permit here in Tennessee). The video is long at 45 minutes but I found most of it...

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[Dingleberry]

This threads needs bumped.


Don't consent to ANY search but don't resist when they do.

Identify yourself and decline to speak. Let a lawyer do that.

But most of all, be polite. These people have a tough enough job.

 

[actaeon277]

Don't talk to the police, doesn't mean you shouldn't speak to your lawyer.

And, I would think the lawyer should make a decision and bring it up.

 

[Brad69]

BBI,
Spoke about this in his long ago class. His advice was similar give basic information and then if you want to stop at that then do so.

I believe he stated that it’s very difficult to investigate when a person just stands there.

I hope BBI chimes in I don‘t wanna put words in his yapper.

 

[ditcherman]

I don't get it. Did one guy (1G) want to sit in jail? and did the prosecutors know this and want to kick him back into the street?
What am I missing that would keep 1G's lawyers from ever bringing this up and the kind friendly prosecutor being such a nice guy?

 

[bgcatty]

During a police vehicle stop: Don’t ever start an argument and don’t make any quick movements with the police standing there. Furtive movements result in issues otherwise. Identify yourself keeping hands on steering wheel. Ask officer if you can reach for your license, registration and insurance card; move very, very slowly. Be polite and respectful but keep your mouth shut!
All because the more you talk, the more you dig yourself a deeper hole that when the time comes your lawyer will have little left to help with your defense!
PS: Watch Ayoob’s video above!!!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

BBI,
Spoke about this in his long ago class. His advice was similar give basic information and then if you want to stop at that then do so.

I believe he stated that it’s very difficult to investigate when a person just stands there.

I hope BBI chimes in I don‘t wanna put words in his yapper.

I'm sure my post is around here somewhere and Mas probably covers it all.

For those saying let your lawyer talk for you, that's fine but there are some things you should be saying during the initial response. By the time you get your lawyer talking with the detective, evidence can disappear. Video can overwrite, witnesses leave and are never identified, "ooooh, free gun" and the bad guy's gun is gone from where it slid, etc.

 

[Tactically Fat]

The "never talk to police" people are often times the "I'll shoot anyone who comes into my house uninvited" crowd.

 

[Destro]

Also important to remember, statements like "come back with a warrant" and "I am not making any statements without an attorney" are not some type of kryptonite statements against the police.

If you have been involved in some type of incident, and make a statement that you need to talk to your attorney, you need to have an attorney AND have a plan on how you contact them. Law Enforcement is not going to wait around while your wife combs through the yellow pages hoping to get an answer at 2am. Depending on the facts and circumstances in the incident, you might even need to prepare yourself to go to jail.

 

[Alamo]

I don't get it. Did one guy (1G) want to sit in jail? and did the prosecutors know this and want to kick him back into the street?
What am I missing that would keep 1G's lawyers from ever bringing this up and the kind friendly prosecutor being such a nice guy?

News accounts are always missing a lot of important details. The fact that the tactical pen was never entered as a separate piece of evidence might have something to do with it.

 

[loudgroove]

I had watched an instructional video a long time ago. Can't seem to remember what one it was, but it was told in the video that first impressions go a long way. When the cops show up, the only info they have is there was a shooting. They don't know who the bad guy is or the good guy. So as briefly as possible show yourself as the victim in as little words as you can.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Also important to remember, statements like "come back with a warrant" and "I am not making any statements without an attorney" are not some type of kryptonite statements against the police.

If you have been involved in some type of incident, and make a statement that you need to talk to your attorney, you need to have an attorney AND have a plan on how you contact them. Law Enforcement is not going to wait around while your wife combs through the yellow pages hoping to get an answer at 2am. Depending on the facts and circumstances in the incident, you might even need to prepare yourself to go to jail.

Good advice... but how many of us law abiding citizens ever think that there will be a day when we, being the kind gentle hearted folk we are, will ever be in a position to NEED legal representation?

That's not something many people think about. In fact, I'm willing to bet a good percentage of gun owners have one "just in case" then DON'T have a fire extinguisher in their kitchen "just in case.

They ACTUALLY have a gun because

1. It's fun to go shooting at the range.
2. Because it's cool.
3. They think it will prevent the bad thing from happening... not that they can respond when it does.
(which is why they don't train very often)

Thinking/worrying about being ready for WHEN the bad times may/will come isn't really the norm.

I have to admit though I DO have that fire extinguisher... I do NOT have a lawyer lined up.




Yet.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

News accounts are always missing a lot of important details. The fact that the tactical pen was never entered as a separate piece of evidence might have something to do with it.

Yeah, the part you quoted is all I’ve read and it makes it sound like 1G sat a year in jail, not saying a word…to the police, or anyone else. As I read that I was thinking surely his attorney had at least asserted self defense but you sure couldn’t get that by what was written.

 

[ECS686]

Good advice... but how many of us law abiding citizens ever think that there will be a day when we, being the kind gentle hearted folk we are, will ever be in a position to NEED legal representation?

That's not something many people think about. In fact, I'm willing to bet a good percentage of gun owners have one "just in case" then DON'T have a fire extinguisher in their kitchen "just in case.

They ACTUALLY have a gun because

1. It's fun to go shooting at the range.
2. Because it's cool.
3. They think it will prevent the bad thing from happening... not that they can respond when it does.
(which is why they don't train very often)

Thinking/worrying about being ready for WHEN the bad times may/will come isn't really the norm.

I have to admit though I DO have that fire extinguisher... I do NOT have a lawyer lined up.




Yet.

The biggest detriment that gun owners or specifically folks that carry and think they are prepared are not. 1 they don’t understand or want to understand that carrying a firearm is a lifestyle change, they don’t think about rule 4 problems in crowded public spaces (as you might have the gear and skills but are you aware of the non players running everywhere)

And what tells me everything if they have no plan A like OC as they will see many more cases of a scenario where they are ok to spray someone but not shoot someone.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Imagine a world of no one talking to the police.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Describing the active dynamic would be optimal. One must be disciplined for it.

Logorrhea is real and the good detectives know how to encourage it.

I know I have said it before but there is nothing more crippling to the the Defendant than an experienced detective. The lean in angle is palable, the rapport with jury is natural, and their hide has toughed as they know what to expect.

Conversely if you win one over (as in George Zimmerman, they can sink a prosecution in minutes).

 

[Destro]

there is nothing more crippling to the the Defendant than an experienced detective.

It was my experience as a detective for about 7 years, that most suspects who are willing to participate in an interview, think they are smarter than the police. Sometimes they are eager to talk. They think they can either minimize or deflect whatever they are involved in. They get in the room and assume what the police know. They spend an hour denying the crime, the whole time filling in all the final pieces to the puzzle. You can tell these people not to talk to the police till the end of time, they will always talk.

One of my last cases before retirement, a child neglect case. After serving a search warrant on the residence, the mother made a spontaneous declaration: "I apologize to you guys for the house being so messy, I haven't been here in a week". I am sure in her mind she was embarrassed and being polite. That single, unprompted statement helped take an arrest warrant from a base hit to a grand slam.