Frontsight opinions needed

[Co Th G]

Anyone been to Frontsight? If so, what's your opinion of the training and what previous training have you had to base your opinion on?

 

[Jackson]

I believe there is (or used to be) a Front Sight instructor here on the board. If you search you will find it has been discussed before. I have not been there, but I hear you get similar instruction as found at other similar places. There are many options in, or closer to, Indiana that would be less costly to attend in terms of travel and time. What is driving your interest in Front Sight specifically? What other training have you had? How would you describe your current skill level? What do you think you want to learn?

 

[Clay319]

I have been a member at Frontsight for over three years. When I joined I was very concerned about the pyramid scheme sales tactics but figured even if I only managed one course before it went under, that would be OK. Turns out that Frontsight could not be more professional. There was no selling on property at all. (Expect to get some junk email on upgraded memberships.) The instructors are top shelf, facilities are fantastic, and training is beyond what I could have imagined. I thought I was a pretty decent shooter prior to going. Now I know how much I didn't (and still don't) know. I have taken the 4 day defensive handgun class twice and 4 day rifle class once. The training was so good I took my son, daughter, wife and hunting buddy with me the next two times I went. As a side note, if you want to convince your wife about the benefits of guns just get her to Frontsight. My wife is now totally on board with any gun related activity.

The only down side to Frontsight is the cost of going to Nevada. Typically expect to drop $1,500 on a 4 day class. This is airfare, food, hotel, car rental, food and ammo (double occupancy). Still a great price for what you are getting. You can get less expensive training locally but four days of intensive work really makes a difference. There are inexpensive memberships available if you know somebody who has them for sale. I would avoid buying direct from Frontsight (too expensive). I have done Appleseed, Ken Campbell's Boone County handgun 2 day class and Guardian Firearms Academy training.

Don't listen to anybody who hasn't been there. Way too many haters who don't know. If you have any questions I'll be glad to help.

 

[Jackson]

I have been a member at Frontsight for over three years. When I joined I was very concerned about the pyramid scheme sales tactics but figured even if I only managed one course before it went under, that would be OK. Turns out that Frontsight could not be more professional. There was no selling on property at all. (Expect to get some junk email on upgraded memberships.) The instructors are top shelf, facilities are fantastic, and training is beyond what I could have imagined. I thought I was a pretty decent shooter prior to going. Now I know how much I didn't (and still don't) know. I have taken the 4 day defensive handgun class twice and 4 day rifle class once. The training was so good I took my son, daughter, wife and hunting buddy with me the next two times I went. As a side note, if you want to convince your wife about the benefits of guns just get her to Frontsight. My wife is now totally on board with any gun related activity.

The only down side to Frontsight is the cost of going to Nevada. Typically expect to drop $1,500 on a 4 day class. This is airfare, food, hotel, car rental, food and ammo (double occupancy). Still a great price for what you are getting. You can get less expensive training locally but four days of intensive work really makes a difference. There are inexpensive memberships available if you know somebody who has them for sale. I would avoid buying direct from Frontsight (too expensive). I have done Appleseed, Ken Campbell's Boone County handgun 2 day class and Guardian Firearms Academy training.

Don't listen to anybody who hasn't been there. Way too many haters who don't know. If you have any questions I'll be glad to help.

No hate from me, but some questions about the training. Can you tell us some of what you did and learned in class? Or, even better, post a detailed AAR and course review? What do you feel Front Sight offers that cannot be found in and around Indiana and warrants a cross country trip?

These are honest questions. I've been considering a trip to some big name schools, but usually elect to do two or three local training sessions for the same cost and time commitment.

 

[N8RV]

Good questions, Jackson, and I'll second the request for a couple of detailed AARs. I happen to have one of their Lifetime Memberships that I bought years ago on the cheap. I've never used it. I hope to someday, but all I've heard and seen about FrontSight is that the classes are cattle calls, with a gazillion students on the line, and that training only moves at the speed of the weakest/slowest students. I'd really like to hear what YOU have to say about your positive experiences there.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Interesting thread. Frontsight certainly does a lot of marketing/advertising. Tagging for additional first hand experiences.

 

[Streck-Fu]

Not mine: LINK

 

[rvb]

zero personal experience here, so a question to ponder...

aren't they the ones stuck on weaver? I guess I could live w/ that so long as they didn't force weaver on students. But if their gun handling techniques are that dated I'd be concerned what other information they are giving is dated...

-rvb

 

[Streck-Fu]

All the positive AARs I am finding are from new shooters or first time class takers. Those with more training experiences have little good to say.

 

[Jackson]

Not mine: LINK

This was informative. I found the attitude of the writer lacking. He (or someone) paid good money to attend and he didn't even pay attention to some parts of it. He also came in feeling like he knew everything and did things his own way. In my opinion, if you pay to attend a class, you get better results if you actually use the methods taught while in the class. If you dont like them after, don't work them in to your practice later. Sometimes though, by using them in class with proper instruction, you learn things about them, or your own methods you otherwise wouldn't have discovered.

That being said, the AAR was informative and detailed. I assume this is the first level class. Nothing there sounded way out of whack as far as training content. Many will disagree with the weaver stance and the thumbs crossed grip. It is not what I use, but it is a workable method for someone who has no method. (RVB does make a good point about what it says about their other techniques.) It also doesn't sound like anything that couldn't be found closer to home.

The comment about the nearly $5000.00 membership was interesting. I am not familiar with the FS pricing structure. Are the classes free after you become a member? If not, what does the membership buy?

 

[Jackson]

Looking at the website, the $5K membership (up to $7920 depending on payment options) gets you 3 4-day classes which you can repeat as many times as you want. To take the classes without the membership is $2,000. Based on cost and travel time I would point people to some of our local training opportunities, traveling big names, and regional shooting schools before I sent them to Front Sight. Again, that is based on cost and time. I don't know enough about the training content to comment on that.

I am still interested in hearing about Clay319's experience.

 

[N8RV]

As a point of reference, I paid $912 for my Lifetime Membership. It doesn't include ALL of their course offerings, but several of the most common ones, as I recall. They offered this particular membership when Glenn Beck held his rally in DC on 9/12 a few years ago. Therefore, my only costs to take one of those classes should be limited to travel, lodging and ammo. Considering that I intend to move someday to AZ, I could see myself taking a road trip on occasion if that's really how it works.

 

[Jackson]

As a point of reference, I paid $912 for my Lifetime Membership. It doesn't include ALL of their course offerings, but several of the most common ones, as I recall. They offered this particular membership when Glenn Beck held his rally in DC on 9/12 a few years ago. Therefore, my only costs to take one of those classes should be limited to travel, lodging and ammo. Considering that I intend to move someday to AZ, I could see myself taking a road trip on occasion if that's really how it works.

But at this point you have paid $912.00 and received no value?

 

[roscott]

I attended all those classes with clay319, and I will second everything he said. While I have had the opportunity to take classes from many other teachers and schools, Frontsight remains the standard to which I compare all others. I have taken several classes there, and even managed to graduate distinguished a couple times, which I will say upfront is VERY difficult. We had lots of experienced shooters in my classes, and usually only 2 or 3 DG the course.


I meant ant to write AARs after each trip, but never did. I will list some of the memorable aspects, however.


You will shoot. A LOT. The first day is lots of basics an dry practice, but they are building a solid foundation because you will be moving quickly later on. Expect 600-800 rounds in the 4-day pistol.
The instructors are excellent. They will make SURE you learn the skills. It is however, fun. It's not boot camp, so you can leave your plate carrier at home.
the time is well spent. Even during breaks, you are being lectured to about law, fundamentals, mindset, tactics, etc.
you will learn how to shoot multiple attackers, how to move, how to clear rooms and doorways, how to clear malfunctions, etc.
Toward the end, you will compete in a head to head steel plate competition to test your skills under stress, you will run a shoot house (an entire shoot canyon if you take the rifle class).


Like I said before, I have taken classes from numerous places, and this is the best. Ignore the hype about it being a scam; it's a weird business model, but if I can get a membership for $500 an take classes year after year, I have gotten WAY more than my money worth.


If you can get professional training, DO IT. Just owning a gun is like buying boxing gloves an a punching bag. Even if you go punch the bag every week, you are in no way ready to be a boxer. You need real training.


If you can get training, do it. If that training can be at Frontsight, DO IT.

 

[N8RV]

But at this point you have paid $912.00 and received no value?

Yup. However, in my defense, I was brand-new to the concept of firearms training, and fell for the first thing that came along (I hate to admit that I fell for Dr. Obnoxious Pizza's marketing!) Once it sank in that my plan to fly out there and take classes was more dream than reality, I started looking locally. Part of that discovery was INGO, thankfully. And now I know that there is indeed very valuable training right here in the good ol' Midwest. Might have to drive a few hours, but it's a whole lot easier than flying and hauling gear, I'm sure.

Am I forgiven now?

 

[Jackson]

Like I said before, I have taken classes from numerous places, and this is the best. Ignore the hype about it being a scam; it's a weird business model, but if I can get a membership for $500 an take classes year after year, I have gotten WAY more than my money worth.


If you can get professional training, DO IT. Just owning a gun is like buying boxing gloves an a punching bag. Even if you go punch the bag every week, you are in no way ready to be a boxer. You need real training.


If you can get training, do it. If that training can be at Frontsight, DO IT.

What other classes have you taken? What was it you learned at Front Sight that was not available here in the midwest?

Is the membership $500 or $5,000? The website looks like 5k.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

FWIW, since subscribing to this thread, I noticed this ad. I opened it and there was the typical FS sales manifesto--that I didn't take the time to read. But I'll offer it up in case any body's interested.

 

[N8RV]

Wow. That's a pretty good deal for anyone who even thinks it's worth going to Vegas for training.

One aspect that wasn't covered in any of the AARs is that the recommended lodging is in Pahrump, NV. Someone informed me that Pahrump is where the majority of the "houses of ill repute" are located in Nevada. If that's true ...

 

[rhino]

It's interesting that Frontsight is now advertising on Glenn Beck's the Blaze and other media. Based on dozens of reports of classes and knowing the lineage of Dr. Piazza (as well as his former associates), I think it's a good thing. I'm not interested in patronizing them, but I think they will reach a lot of people who would otherwise never seek formal firearms education. Do I think their curriculum is the best? Nope. Do I think they can train people to safely and effectively use their firearms? Yes, I do.

So overall a win. If someone wants to buy from them, great! I hope those same people also avail themselves of additional opportunities to broaden their knowledge base, but that's on them

 

[roscott]

What other classes have you taken? What was it you learned at Front Sight that was not available here in the midwest?

Is the membership $500 or $5,000? The website looks like 5k.

I have taken classes with Guardian Firearms, Appleseed, and Ken Campbell's Gunsite training, in addition to Frontsight. All have been good training, some better than others. I can't say that what I learned at Frontsight could not be obtained somewhere here in the midwest, but I will say that it is the best training I have had, and I highly recommend it.

And ignore the $5K listed prices on their website. Members can buy additional memberships to sell/give away for a few hundred bucks a piece.