Can a pump shotgun guru explain?

[teddy12b]

Could someone explain the different levels of quality between the Mossberg & Remington pump shotguns? I'm not looking for the old mossberg vs 870 arguements, but for example I'd like to understand the difference between a mossberg 500, vs a 590A1. Also a 870 express vs 870 super magnum. Or a 500 cruiser vs a persuader. I don't know that I ever seen much discussion between the different models of 12ga shotguns and I'd really like to avoid the rem vs moss stuff since they both making an outstanding shotgun.

I sold an 870 last year with plan to get a different pump shotgun at a later date that had a few upgrades. I find myself interested in the pump shotguns that have more than a bb front sight post and hold as much ammo as possible. I've got an 11-87 for field & hunting use. Now I'm thinking about something for around the house, but there's so many different models out there I don't know what kind of quality I'm getting to make a educated comparison between the shotgun models. I know both the mos & rem are solid guns so I'm not too worried over brand name, I'm more worried about getting something that can take abuse and rough treatment.

Whatever shotgun I go with I plan on beating on it.

 

[chezuki]

Comparison between the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500

Good info here.

 

[Spikedog]

For the Mossberg, the 590-A1 is the military/police version of the 500. It has a heavy barrel, several tactical stocks, and black oxide coating. It also is available with different sights.

 

[Stickfight]

I don't know Mossbergs, but an 870 Express action will handle 2 3/4" & 3" shells, while the Express Super Magnum will handle those plus 3 1/2" shells. Other than the extra length to accommodate those there are no differences. The 870 Wingmaster is the Express action with a blued finish.

There are dozens of different stock / finish combos within two Express actions though.

 

[Zoub]

First avoid discussing ergonomics, each shooter has his preference. Same goes for fit and location of the safety.

The simple way to do it is this. A Wingmaster costs $700-$800 new today. Not an Express, a Wingmaster. There are reasons why it costs so much and it is all about labor and fitting of the gun. This is the same reason Winchester dropped the old Model 12, cost of labor. Who buys a $700 walnut stocked pump gun to drag through the marsh? Pumps are a relic on the trap, skeet and clays courses (although I used one old school style 2 weeks ago).

These two guns are smoother than a baby's ass and fast. Then came Ithaca and Browning. Mossberg was not even close BUT cheap. This carries over into today's arguments but it does not apply in a blanket statement like it use to in the 70's. Back then the argument was buy a 70's Wingmaster or a 60's model 12 and with that came the discussion of single versus twin action bars. Not a huge issue on trap pads but it could be in hunting or HD.

Meanwhile, Mossberg improved their game with the 500's and 590's and Remington came down to meet them at the same price point with the Express models.

So at the top comes the Wingmaster, in the middle the 590's and Express models, at the bottom the 500. The more you shoot a model 12 or Wingmaster, the harder it is to stomach a 500.

Now comes in recent years quality issues with Remington and the Express models while Mossberg has stayed consistent. There are some real turd Express guns out there.

Standard, Magnum, Super Magnum are designations of chamber size and mean nothing in terms of quality of the gun but the Police designation on a Remington does. A Police is basically a tactical version of a Wingmaster receiver. With Remington quality is Wingmaster, Police then Express.

You can polish certain things on an Express to improve it but it will never be a Wingmaster, just smoother and more reliable. The Mossbergs you pretty much take as they are, no need to tweak either one. There is no reason to polish the turd so to speak on a 500 when you can buy a 590 series.

The Benelli Nova is an excellent gun for the money but the damn stock overall is too long and that hurts it in HD applications. It does not fit a lot of people well but is probably a better made gun then the Express or 590's.

The BEST value is a used Wingmaster 30 to 40 years old. So what if the chamber is only 2 3/4", in today's dollars it is a $700 gun with 50-100 rounds through it.

 

[teddy12b]

So basically, for what I'm after a 870 police or a 590 and be done with it?

 

[Leo]

I have had really ratty mossberg 500's that rattled when you shook them, and they went bang every time. I have a brand new one with a rifled slug barrel, it goes bang every time. I have or have had 870's 1100's 11-87's of the Wingmaster, TC, SP and express varieties. I even had a Peerless, that worked ok, but didn't fit me right. They were reliable. With the 1100 & 11-87 semi autos, if they quit working, it is usually an "O" ring or sometimes a piston that is a cheap fix.

If you are buying the base model, whatever fits you and you like is fine, you will not go wrong with either brand. The Remington brand has a lot more selection on the higher priced guns. None of the Remington production guns are in the class of "fine" grade guns. Of the two brands, If you like a nicer finish and better grades of wood, Remington is the one to go with.

 

[teddy12b]

One of the features I like about the mossbergs is the stock that holds a few extra shells in it. It's not a big deal, but why not. I also like that the mossberg shotguns hold an extra round or two.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

So basically, for what I'm after a 870 police or a 590 and be done with it?

Can't go wrong with either one but I doubt you would EVER wear out or break ANY Mossberg 500 or Rem 870.

Personally I had and favored Mossberg pumps. Their shell lift gate intersects the bolt and makes it literally impossible to have a stove pipe or double feed malfunction that will put an 870 out of commission.

The police or 590A1 are top of the line MID grade shotguns. Perfect for HD and competition to beat on and leave dirty.

 

[Zoub]

So basically, for what I'm after a 870 police or a 590 and be done with it?

I would say get the Benelli M2 but that is just me. I own too many 870's and still plan to build...........being honest.............3 more.

But for you, I say get the M2. (I thought you already did this shotgun thing?)

 

[teddy12b]

I would say get the Benelli M2 but that is just me. I own too many 870's and still plan to build...........being honest.............3 more.

But for you, I say get the M2. (I thought you already did this shotgun thing?)

When I bought my 11-87 last year for whatever reason I found out that I didn't completely suck with a shotgun. Whenever I've tried using the bb front sight type pump shotguns I always seem to be less effective. I don't know if it's because the barrel is considerably longer on my 11-87 and that helps me out or what, but that gun seems to work well for me. While the primary goal of this shotgun would be home defense I'd also like to have some form of adjustable iron sights so I could zero it with slugs and feel better about taking it out deer hunting. I'm not in any rush though and I'll make sure to check the way these shotguns fit me before buying one.

 

[bobzilla]

I've put somewhere in the neighborhood of 900-1000 rds through my $75 Mossberg 500. formerly a 28" mod choke cut down to 19.5". Puts bird shot into 2" groups at 20 feet and has NEVER not gone "bang".

I wouldn't hesitate to take it, as it sits, into a EOTWAWKI situation and know that I could shoot it until I ran out of ammo.

 

[Zoub]

I found out that I didn't completely suck with a shotgun. (I forgot about the sucking part!)

Whenever I've tried using the bb front sight type pump shotguns I always seem to be less effective. I don't know if it's because the barrel is considerably longer on my 11-87 and that helps me out or what.

This is easy to resolve. So you are saying your longer barreled 11-87 shoots better for you than a shorter barreled 870. Are you shooting at clays/moving targets or just static targets? Also, are the pump guns HD guns with tactical stocks on them?

 

[bobzilla]

i've suprised more than a few people with my short Mossy and clays. Last time I shot them I was 29 for 30. The reason I missed the one was I didn't count how many rounds were fired. Whoops.

 

[Zoub]

i've suprised more than a few people with my short Mossy and clays. Last time I shot them I was 29 for 30. The reason I missed the one was I didn't count how many rounds were fired. Whoops.

Yeah, but Teddy is not you and neither of you are me

 

[snapping turtle]

The more you shoot a model 12 or Wingmaster, the harder it is to stomach a 500.

Every mossburg seems to rattle a bit also. I have not shot the 590 but many a 500 and they all rattle when you shake them.

 

[teddy12b]

This is easy to resolve. So you are saying your longer barreled 11-87 shoots better for you than a shorter barreled 870. Are you shooting at clays/moving targets or just static targets? Also, are the pump guns HD guns with tactical stocks on them?

I'm using the 11-87 for clays and pheasants with decent (participation award) results on clays and outstanding (God's firey sword) results on pheasants. When I pull up on a pheasant, let the record show that it's gonna die and I'm gonna start getting hungry. When I pull up on a sporting clays he's got almost a 40% chance of making it out untouched even with empty red shells flying out the side of the shotgun while I blast away in frustration.

The more I think about all of this maybe I should just think about an additional barrel for my 11-87 and a tube extension, lol.

 

[Zoub]

The more I think about all of this maybe I should just think about an additional barrel for my 11-87 and a tube extension, lol.

You are close, very close. I would say get a slug barrel for deer for the 11/87. An 870 for HD.

The longer LOP, longer barrel, heavier weight and vent rib are the reasons the 11/87 swings smoother on moving targets. It will also make a better slug gun with less recoil. If you hunt with a shotgun, it is very easy to justify having 2 if you want one for HD. And frankly, the dedicated HD shotgun does not have to be the best gun made but you might do better with another Remington since they are similar.

 

[VUPDblue]

...and neither of you are me

THANK GOD! One of you is plenty.....

 

[Zoub]

THANK GOD! One of you is plenty.....

No more pulling my punches on you man!

(if you could only see the two shotgun projects I have in my mind, but I am not sharing)