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Legality of trading guns
- Thread starter DiamProducer
- Start date
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No paperwork is needed. Typically it is not desired.
The MOST that I will do is sign saying that I am not a criminal, that I am legally able to buy a gun, etc. I will not provide the seller with my address (that is for my security and the security of my family). I've only signed anything on trades twice. It is simply not needed.
On the other hand, when you sell a gun you cannot sell a gun to a known felon, to someone you know to be disqualified from buying a gun, etc.
Really when you think about it, it is no different than selling a gun to your neighbor or gifting a gun to your child or grandchild. As long as you believe them to be of good character then you have no issues with selling or trading the gun.
The MOST that I will do is sign saying that I am not a criminal, that I am legally able to buy a gun, etc. I will not provide the seller with my address (that is for my security and the security of my family). I've only signed anything on trades twice. It is simply not needed.
On the other hand, when you sell a gun you cannot sell a gun to a known felon, to someone you know to be disqualified from buying a gun, etc.
Really when you think about it, it is no different than selling a gun to your neighbor or gifting a gun to your child or grandchild. As long as you believe them to be of good character then you have no issues with selling or trading the gun.
SavageEagle
Grandmaster
- Apr 27, 2008
- 19,568
- 38
Great response melensdad! I will add one thing...
If you go about trading handguns, some people will require to see your LTCH just to be sure you are a "proper person". It is a good habit when it comes to handguns and people you don't know at all or well.
PatMcGroyne
Sharpshooter
"Gifting" a gun to a child.
Are there not some liability ramifications bearing upon to whom one
"gifts" a gun that one has purchased?? Indiana "Age of accountability", or something like in statutory rape?? Even though "gifting" the weapon means that it has changed hands, and "giftee" owns the weapon, does not the "gifter" still have some legal liability?? In Indiana?? Anyone? Beuhler?
Are there not some liability ramifications bearing upon to whom one
"gifts" a gun that one has purchased?? Indiana "Age of accountability", or something like in statutory rape?? Even though "gifting" the weapon means that it has changed hands, and "giftee" owns the weapon, does not the "gifter" still have some legal liability?? In Indiana?? Anyone? Beuhler?
I have gifted my daughter her very own PINK AR15. It is legal for her to possess it under adult supervision (like hunting or target shooting) but she cannot have unfettered access to it when no adult is around. Legally its her gun. However the laws require that no child can have unrestricted access, therefore her gun resides in my safe until she is legally old enough to take a weapon out by herself.
Now if I gift a weapon to my older brother, or a nephew or someone else and the weapon is later stolen, or perhaps used in crime, it will be traced back to me. I, however have no legal liability with regard to that weapon provided that when I gifted (or sold) it the person who received it was of good character. I simply have to say that I gifted/sold the gun. Nothing more is required. I don't even have to say who I sold it to if I don't know.
jimbolucky13
Marksman
I find this to be a very popular, and also very important topic. I usually like at least a bill of sale for my own piece of mind, even though it is not needed. I think it is good for people to come on to forums like this and recieve good information or even good ideas to make them feel comfortable, if the law requires it or not. oh by the way I'm a newbie here and only decided to join after I had read several topics here on INGO, and found answers and characters who I feel comfortable with. This is a great site guys!
PatMcGroyne
Sharpshooter
Without stating her age, you have answered my question in the most correct way. Thanks. Pat.
Remember, IF you are a C&R holder you do have some bookwork to do.
Doug
Doug
For the OP, bear in mind that the culture of "no paperwork - no addresses," is something you may or may not find if you move to another State... and you take your firearms with you.
My job has the attribute that I may move every few years - there are typically only 3-8 positions for what I do in each metropolitan area. I've been here two years and have adapted to (and even enjoy!) the ease of handgun purchasing/selling trading. I'm not talking comparisons to NJ/CA/IL.
My last City was St. Louis for about 8 years. Want to buy a handgun? Want to trade a handgun (where you receive one in kind?) You need to drive your little heiny down to the local police precinct / sheriff's department and apply for a Permit To Acquire A Handgun.
If you were lucky, you lived in one of the more rural burbs - the sheriff might sign it while you wait. If you lived in Saint Louis County (and all of the good schools were in St Louis County) then you waited... Fill it out in the local precinct. Give them $10. It then gets transferred downtown. The law requires that a YES or NO has to be given in, I think, 10 days. Inevitably, it took ten days in St. Louis.
The signed form is then slow-boated back to the precinct house - NO, you can't pick it up at a different precinct or downtown.
What does this form give you? "Permission" to acquire a handgun through a shop, at a gun show, from an individual - whether through trade or purchase. The completed form post-transaction had to be mailed back to the issue LE agency. This form began counting down from the moment you picked it up and you had so many weeks/months to exercise this acquisition.
What's the point? You had a paperwork trail. A trail of forms that could prove ownership (or past-ownership / transfer) of a handgun. Why was that important? St Louis Metro PD had a standing practice: If you CC handgun was "noticed" by a LEO, unless you could prove ownership, the handgun was confiscated, taken downtown and held in evidence until you could prove ownership. Guilty until proven innocent. This was the case as recently as early 2007. Myself and most folks kept documentation in your vehicles proving ownership of every handgun you might carry. Some even shrank itsy-bitsy business card size facsimiles of the document, laminated it and kept it in their wallet.
I had (have) a Utah Non-Resident permit, along with my newly acquired Lifetime from IN!! A concealed handgun permit got you nothing in terms of purchasing expedience.
I don't require a receipt for a sell or trade - you guys have "broken" me of it. I do recognize that it could come back to bite me if/when I move to another State and have to prove ownership.
One poster from MO summed it up better than me:
Another note - Shortly after MO passed Concealed Carry Laws, the St Louis Police department spent thousands in taxpayer funds print "No Handguns Allowed" signs and distributed them free to all businesses by going door-to-door.
It wasn't all bad. One wasn't required to have a permit to simply take a handgun to a range and if you were over (23?), you could legally carry a handgun in your car for self defense without a permit.
Bad News if you don't live in a good neighborhood. Presumed Guilty if the parent doesn't consent to search?
Hazelwood - a St Louis County Community
My job has the attribute that I may move every few years - there are typically only 3-8 positions for what I do in each metropolitan area. I've been here two years and have adapted to (and even enjoy!) the ease of handgun purchasing/selling trading. I'm not talking comparisons to NJ/CA/IL.
My last City was St. Louis for about 8 years. Want to buy a handgun? Want to trade a handgun (where you receive one in kind?) You need to drive your little heiny down to the local police precinct / sheriff's department and apply for a Permit To Acquire A Handgun.
If you were lucky, you lived in one of the more rural burbs - the sheriff might sign it while you wait. If you lived in Saint Louis County (and all of the good schools were in St Louis County) then you waited... Fill it out in the local precinct. Give them $10. It then gets transferred downtown. The law requires that a YES or NO has to be given in, I think, 10 days. Inevitably, it took ten days in St. Louis.
The signed form is then slow-boated back to the precinct house - NO, you can't pick it up at a different precinct or downtown.
What does this form give you? "Permission" to acquire a handgun through a shop, at a gun show, from an individual - whether through trade or purchase. The completed form post-transaction had to be mailed back to the issue LE agency. This form began counting down from the moment you picked it up and you had so many weeks/months to exercise this acquisition.
What's the point? You had a paperwork trail. A trail of forms that could prove ownership (or past-ownership / transfer) of a handgun. Why was that important? St Louis Metro PD had a standing practice: If you CC handgun was "noticed" by a LEO, unless you could prove ownership, the handgun was confiscated, taken downtown and held in evidence until you could prove ownership. Guilty until proven innocent. This was the case as recently as early 2007. Myself and most folks kept documentation in your vehicles proving ownership of every handgun you might carry. Some even shrank itsy-bitsy business card size facsimiles of the document, laminated it and kept it in their wallet.
I had (have) a Utah Non-Resident permit, along with my newly acquired Lifetime from IN!! A concealed handgun permit got you nothing in terms of purchasing expedience.
I don't require a receipt for a sell or trade - you guys have "broken" me of it. I do recognize that it could come back to bite me if/when I move to another State and have to prove ownership.
One poster from MO summed it up better than me:
Another note - Shortly after MO passed Concealed Carry Laws, the St Louis Police department spent thousands in taxpayer funds print "No Handguns Allowed" signs and distributed them free to all businesses by going door-to-door.
It wasn't all bad. One wasn't required to have a permit to simply take a handgun to a range and if you were over (23?), you could legally carry a handgun in your car for self defense without a permit.
Bad News if you don't live in a good neighborhood. Presumed Guilty if the parent doesn't consent to search?
Hazelwood - a St Louis County Community
SavageEagle
Grandmaster
- Apr 27, 2008
- 19,568
- 38
Yea well, I've lived here all my life and my dream has always been to move to Montana. I think we'd all like living there. Unless you just don't like snow....
If I purchase a handgun from a private person, do I have to complete a transfer
form?
form?
No. Indiana does not require the completion of a form for a private purchase nor do you
have to route the transfer through a dealer. Recommend reviewing statutes in IC 35-
47-2.5 which is the chapter regulating the sale of handguns in regards to a private sale
or purchase.
This was taken directly from Indiana State Police's FAQ section.
http://www.in.gov/isp/files/firearms_FAQ_02_08.pdf
have to route the transfer through a dealer. Recommend reviewing statutes in IC 35-
47-2.5 which is the chapter regulating the sale of handguns in regards to a private sale
or purchase.
This was taken directly from Indiana State Police's FAQ section.
http://www.in.gov/isp/files/firearms_FAQ_02_08.pdf
http://www.nivuahc.com/downloads/bill_of_trade.pdf
Cover your butt!!!
I usually ask up front if their ok with a bill of trade or sale and if they decline? "Bye Bye". Also, sticking with CCW holders will at least guarantee that they dont have any past felonies that the state is aware of.
Cover your butt!!!
I usually ask up front if their ok with a bill of trade or sale and if they decline? "Bye Bye". Also, sticking with CCW holders will at least guarantee that they dont have any past felonies that the state is aware of.
Last edited:
SavageEagle
Grandmaster
- Apr 27, 2008
- 19,568
- 38
IANAL. I cannot READ that let alone UNDERSTAND THAT!!!!
A simple,
I, ____, have gun. I give ______ said gun. We agree said gun now belongs to _____ for $______ . This ends the Deal.
X____________ X____________ Witness___________ Date__________
And this kind of contract will still hold up in court!
Never in 43 years and 18 states have I been asked to prove ownership or the origin of any firearms. I will say this, if you happen to be moving to Arizona and you get stopped at a checkpoint on the New Mexico/Arizona state line and they ask you, "Sir do you have any firearms in the vehicle." Do yourself a favor and avoid allot of hassle and just say no.
IANAL. I cannot READ that let alone UNDERSTAND THAT!!!!
A simple,
I, ____, have gun. I give ______ said gun. We agree said gun now belongs to _____ for . This ends the Deal.
X____________ X____________ Witness___________ Date__________
And this kind of contract will still hold up in court!
I thought it was pretty simple but whatever works I guess
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