Don't bet your life on averages

[MilitaryArms]

We've all seen discussions on the 'net and even on this board about the average number of rounds fired in a self defense situation. Some use these averages to justify their choice of carry weapons or how many spare rounds they carry on them.

A chilling story out of Skokie Illinois should be a lesson to us all. I talk about it and the consequences in this article: Don’t bet your life on averages | The Bang Switch

 

[HoughMade]

I've never felt my M&P 9c with 12+1 on board and 17 more ready to go left me undergunned.....until now.

 

[MPH]

I was involved in a self defense situation years ago. Bad guy was hit 8 times, 6 center mass and he was still trying to kill me. It took a headshot to stop the attack. CNS is the best, but very difficult to obtain, especially when you've been wounded.

 

[SmileDocHill]

I was involved in a self defense situation years ago. Bad guy was hit 8 times, 6 center mass and he was still trying to kill me. It took a headshot to stop the attack. CNS is the best, but very difficult to obtain, especially when you've been wounded.

WOW! Thanks for sharing that. A lot of us that understand probability get a little relaxed knowing the odds of actually ever having to fight for our lives is quite miniscule. Stories like that are a wake up call.

 

[sig1473]

Great article. I too find myself only carrying 9+1 in my G27 but I usually always have one spare mag with me in my car. As I find myself changing careers and joining the Sheriff's Dept., I am starting to rethink what handgun/rifle I will be carrying with me. As you stated, better to have too much then not have enough.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I've always carried 9mm's because of the capacity advantage, and with modern ammo it really gives up nothing to the .40's and .45's out there in terms of ballistic performance.

This story, and the story of my friend Matt (who I mention in the article) serves to strengthen my position that 9mm is the way to go.

Man, I couldn't imagine being down to my last 3 rounds and the guy who's trying to kill me already took 14 hits and is still coming.

Plan for the worst.

 

[223 Gunner]

I'll be adding more mags to my kit, great read, and a real eye opener.
As always, thanks for sharing and posting.

 

[cmamath13]

The story from the officer in this article is a real eye-opener:
"At the core of his desperate firefight was a murderous attacker who simply would not go down, even though he was shot 14 times with .45-cal. ammunition — six of those hits in supposedly fatal locations."

So much for the 1 shot your dead with 45 ACP theory.

 

[lovemachine]

Very good article.

In the winter, I carry a Glock 19, with a spare mag. In the summer, it's a Glock 26, with a spare mag. Depending where I go, it'll be 2 spare mags.

 

[AlwaysVigilant]

I think this is also a wake-up call for the use of blades, movement, and effective hand to hand skills, in addition to rounds on tap. We often forget about the other weapons and our ability to move and fight coming into the equation...or maybe it is just more interesting to talk about firearms. Either way, its just as important to work on those things as well.

I'm a 9mm guy as well. Sure I have other calibers, but the 9 is my EDC, and I always have one reload, for the bullets and the chance that the mag fails. I also load each mag from a different box of carry ammo in case there is a bad batch...probably overkill...but it aint hurtin' anyone.

 

[iChokePeople]

The story from the officer in this article is a real eye-opener:
"At the core of his desperate firefight was a murderous attacker who simply would not go down, even though he was shot 14 times with .45-cal. ammunition — six of those hits in supposedly fatal locations."

So much for the 1 shot your dead with 45 ACP theory.

Must not have been a 1911. It takes the combination of .45acp *and* the use of God's gun, given to us through His faithful servant, to automatically kill the soul of the unrighteous. Any other combination is blasphemy.

 

[eldirector]

Just a reminder that handgun calibers are actually pretty poor performers.

Wasn't there some old quote about using your handgun to fight your way to your rifle?

Better than a club or peeing on yourself, but not quite as definitive as, say, 5.56 or 00 Buckshot.

 

[Birds Away]

There are a few good lessons here:

1) When it comes to ammo, more is better.

2) Be prepared to defend yourself. Even cops can't rely on cops arriving in time to help.

3) A pistol is for fighting your way back to wherever you left your rifle.

Not being a smartass, these are all true. I recently, about six months ago, transitioned to all 9mm. The minimum capacity in the group is 14+1. Always carry at least one 19 round mag as backup. Two is even better.

 

[snowwalker]

I carry and like the 45ACP, but now I will think on changing what I carry in reloads. I currently carry Gold Dots or the Barnes X bullet, I'm going to switch my reload magazines to CorBon Pow'rballs.

 

[snowwalker]

Just a reminder that handgun calibers are actually pretty poor performers.

Wasn't there some old quote about using your handgun to fight your way to your rifle?

Better than a club or peeing on yourself, but not quite as definitive as, say, 5.56 or 00 Buckshot.

That would be Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch.

 

[snowwalker]

As a civilian I've thought of carrying a shotgun in the back of my vehicle. What do you all think, good idea or not, and if a good idea what load would you suggest in such a scenario?

 

[iChokePeople]

As a civilian I've thought of carrying a shotgun in the back of my vehicle. What do you all think, good idea or not, and if a good idea what load would you suggest in such a scenario?

Good, and 00 buck.

Better: Rifle (IMHO, YMMV)

Best: "my vehicle" = Abrams tank, Bradley Fighting Vehicle, or AH-64.

 

[MPH]

As a civilian I've thought of carrying a shotgun in the back of my vehicle. What do you all think, good idea or not, and if a good idea what load would you suggest in such a scenario?

Not a bad idea. I'd advise carrying it in 'car-carry' condition, which means all rounds in the mag, none in the chamber. It might prevent an accidental discharge. Also, if left unattended, like when you are in a mall, to cover the bag with something. And of course, upon completion of your trip, remove the weapon from the vehicle.

 

[cosermann]

"Don't bet your life on averages. . . "

. . . Especially if those averages are based on sloppy/poor statistical analysis on OLD (pre-94) data that doesn't reflect the current reality.

Given changes in weapons and tactics over the years, the average is now about EIGHT (8) rounds [1].

[1] - John Farnam - Enough Ammunition

 

[SmokinSigs357]

From the article:

"Where Officer Gramins once carried a .45 and 47 rounds of ammo he now carries a 9mm and 145 rounds of ammo. Sure, 145 rounds may be a little excessive, but it’s better to have and not need than to not have and want."

The real problem here is that most Skokie/Illinois residents can't carry a gun at all.