35 Remington - 1.800"

[Broom_jm]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to create this thread but I'm sorta new around here, so go easy on me. Also, if this has been discussed already, I couldn't find it with a search. Please copy a link to any threads that I should review on this topic.

For the 2012 deer season the new rules will allow deer-hunting rifles to chamber cases up to 1.800" long, shooting bullets that are at least .357" in diameter. This would seen to be a result of the 44 Magnum and 500 S&W Magnum being legal, while the 460S&W was not. It looks to me like the new rule was created to allow the use of the 460S&W.

What it also does is open the door for reloaders to trim the neck on a 35 Remington case, seat the bullet a little long, and use as normal. With the shortened case, neck tension might be a problem, so perhaps you would load your lever-action rifle with one in the tube, one in the chamber, to avoid setting a bullet back on recoil.

This 35 Remington-short case would actually lose nothing in terms of case capacity or effective range, which was fairly modest to begin with. It won't be as potent as many of the other options, like the 460S&W itself, but it will be an easy cartridge to work with and will definitely be easy on the ol' shoulder!

Am I the only Hoosier looking at this classic woods cartridge for hunting deer next fall?

Jason

 

[HaleysLodge]

look into the 358 hoosier guy makes that wildcat here down south I belive

 

[Broom_jm]

I've got a 358GNR wildcat, which is the 445 Super Mag necked up. It works well out to 200+ yards. I'm thinking of getting a 35 Remington because it won't require any special dies or a rechamber, just trim the cases and load 'em up!

I'm not really interested in the recoil of the 358HDH, WSSM, BFG or any of the soon-to-be WSM based rounds that are trimmed to 1.8". They will generate more recoil than I'm really interested in.

 

[Aszerigan]

Talk to Fireball168 from BGF Cartridges (a site advertiser here). He knows more about this than anyone.

 

[Broom_jm]

Yeah, I've talked to Bryan from "BFG" cartridges about various wildcats. He really is on top of the hottest 35 caliber options and is doing some great stuff with the WSSM and WSM cases. He also has a 357 Herrett plan, using 375 Winchester brass, that will make for a fairly simple wildcat for next fall.

What I'm really interested in is just a simple 35 Remington, with the brass trimmed back .120" No custom-chambered barrels, no expensive die sets, no complicated and time-consuming case-forming chores...just trim 35 Remmy cases, charge with powder, seat bullet and shoot. Factory gun, factory dies, very simple handloading techniques.

Any takers?

 

[rimfire_crazed]

I'm considering doing this. Depends on the availability of a 35 remington levergun or getting MGM to build an encore barrel.

I really don't think neck tension will be an issue - but I haven't been able to handle any brass or play around with it yet. I'm guessing before I buy a rifle the first step will be to get some brass, dies, and cheap .35 caliber bullets and see how it all shakes out.

I'm slightly concerned about the very small shoulder on the .35 rem.

 

[Broom_jm]

Well, the 35 Remington has had a small shoulder pretty much since the beginning of time, so that doesn't worry me a whole lot. It operates at truly modest pressures and I've never heard of a problem with headspace or life of the brass. What I'm hoping to be able to do is handload the same standard 35 Remington bullets that have been working for decades in a slightly shortened version of the case. The classic Remington 200gr PSP Core-lokt should work just fine. Also, the 180gr SSP and 200gr FTX bullets, from Hornady, both work well at 35 Remington velocity levels. The FTX bullet was made expressly for it and with it's .300 BC will help carry velocity and energy a bit farther.

 

[rimfire_crazed]

Well, then do it! It's certainly not rocket science.

I certainly would NOT seat the bullets .120" deeper without some serious load development. If i undertake this, I will be seating them to standard OAL, and if shooting a lever gun, will only be carrying one round in the magazine.

 

[shooter1054]

This could get interesting.

 

[phatgemi]

At one time I heard it defined that in addition to the round itself meeting length restrictions, It also stated that the gun itself could not be capable of firing an illegal round. This would preclude the use of 35 rem as while it surely could fire the trimmed round, the capability exists to fire a normal 35 rem round. Same rationale for .45/70. The 45/70 could be trimmed to shorter length to fit the regulations but would still allow the gun to fire an illegal round.

But I think this thinking has gone by the wayside. Hope they don't rethink this.

 

[Broom_jm]

This is something I will almost certainly be doing, primarily as a rifle that my wife and daughter can shoot due to the mild recoil. Like Rimfire said, it's not rocket surgery, for cryin' outside!

I talked to an Indiana CO about the technicalities and all he would say is that the cartridge must be no longer than (at the time) 1.625". This was in my response to asking about a 357 Herrett-short. I don't know if the officers are carrying a dial caliper around with them, but I think that misses the point. They aren't overly concerned with the miniscule number of guys shooting wildcats or modified rounds. Frankly, a full-length 35 Remington is STILL less of a "concern" than the now-legal 460S&W or the 445 Super Mag, for that matter.

I just like the idea of something as simple as buying a 35 Remington and loading up some trimmed cases. Even though the end result won't be a 200+ yard gun, it will shoot out to 150 pretty easy, without any hold-over. For a lot of shooters, that is plenty of range. My wife says if you can't get any closer than 100 yards, you're not much of a hunter.

 

[patience0830]

still lookin

What happened to the reg about the cartridge having to be a straight wall case? Did that change when I wasn't looking?

 

[shooter1054]

Apparently the straight wall thing went by the wayside. The 458 SOCOM is a legal round and is a shouldered case.

 

[shooter1054]

I'm still looking forward to the next 5 or so years when these silly restrictions will be lifted and we can just use centerfire rifles. We are getting there, just slowly.

 

[42769vette]

What happened to the reg about the cartridge having to be a straight wall case? Did that change when I wasn't looking?

im pretty sure that reg was a mith. i know by the time i got intertested in a 358 variant and actually checked the laws it was not on the books, but i was still constantly told "it has to be straightwall" i started looking into the 358 variants about 2.5 years ago. i built a 358bfg, and even though the case length is changing i found out the 358 bfg is capable of shooting alot further than i have distance to shoot from my stands

 

[Broom_jm]

Other states have a straight-walled stipulation on their PCR's, but not Indiana. If they did that, the 357 MAX would have been about the best option, at least until they made the 460S&W legal. The problem with the 460, 454 or 445SM is that you're dealing with almost as much recoil as a slug gun, without a lot more added range, if any. Personally, I'm glad they're allowing bottle-necked cases and I hope they do end all this silliness and allow normal rifle rounds throughout most of the state, at some point. Safety is in the behavior of the shooter, not the design or capability of the cartridge.

 

[phatgemi]

Other states have a straight-walled stipulation on their PCR's, but not Indiana. If they did that, the 357 MAX would have been about the best option, at least until they made the 460S&W legal. The problem with the 460, 454 or 445SM is that you're dealing with almost as much recoil as a slug gun, without a lot more added range, if any. Personally, I'm glad they're allowing bottle-necked cases and I hope they do end all this silliness and allow normal rifle rounds throughout most of the state, at some point. Safety is in the behavior of the shooter, not the design or capability of the cartridge.

Never shot a 460 or 454 but a 445sm is no where near the recoil of a 12 gauge slug..Didnt seem like it anyway.

 

[fireball168]

The problem with the 460, 454 or 445SM is that you're dealing with almost as much recoil as a slug gun, without a lot more added range, if any.

Have you ever actually fired a 460, 454 and/or 445 Super Mag barrel on the same platform as a 12 or 20 gauge slug gun, such as the T/C Encore?

 

[Broom_jm]

Have you ever actually fired a 460, 454 and/or 445 Super Mag barrel on the same platform as a 12 or 20 gauge slug gun, such as the T/C Encore?

I've never fired then on the same platform, no. I do realize there is a difference in recoil, as well as in their long-range performance. The point I was trying to illustrate is that large-caliber PCR's like the 460S&W have more recoil than a traditional deer rifle, as do the various slug gun options. When it comes to introducing a woman or young person to hunting, neither type of firearm is a good choice. A 35 Remington-short would be, thanks to the moderate recoil. See what I'm saying?

 

[fireball168]

I've never fired then on the same platform, no. I do realize there is a difference in recoil, as well as in their long-range performance.

The point I was trying to illustrate is that large-caliber PCR's like the 460S&W have more recoil than a traditional deer rifle, as do the various slug gun options.

When it comes to introducing a woman or young person to hunting, neither type of firearm is a good choice.

A 35 Remington-short would be, thanks to the moderate recoil. See what I'm saying?

Experiences vary, here are a couple of "real" ones starting from mid April until a week before hunting season began this year.


I setup a 10 year old boy, and a 15 year old girl this year with 445 Super Magnum Handi Rifles.

This was after both of them, and their fathers, realized the "hype" the ignorant gun store employees, family and friends made over the children hunting with a 44 Magnum.

Once they got proficient with the 44 Magnum barrels, I rechambered to 445 Super Magnum - worked up the loads gradually, and it doesn't bother them at all.


Both tried my .357 BFG-Herrett Short in an Encore - neither cared for the sharper recoil impulse, but they handled it well. Incidentally, the Gremlin and the Herrett short will do anything a factory loaded 35 Remington will do.

Both tried the .358 BFG-WSSM in an Encore - neither cared for the muzzle blast with a brake, but they handled it well and said the recoil was less than the Herrett.

Both tried a 454 Casull in a Handi Rifle - didn't bother either one of them, but they preferred their 445's.

Both tried the .460 S&W in an Encore - neither cared for the muzzle blast out of the 20" barrel, and the boy didn't care for the recoil out of its 7.5 lb dressed weight.