To Serpa or not to serpa?

[Cygnus]

I've been advised for and against by people whose opinion I trust.

One advocates the retention and ease of use. Says it's part of the natural draw motion.

one says it's another step to eff up in a real self-defense situation.

How bout you folks????

 

[jeremy]

It is no worse than having a thumb snap on a holster...

 

[Joe Williams]

I cannot reliably hit the release under even simulated stress. Actually, I'm hitting the release, but I have a habit of starting to pull the gun up before the release is activated. This locks the gun in the holster until you push down again. I posted about this I think here, and certainly on another board. Turns out I'm not the only one who has problems with the holsters. After more than a thousand practice draws, and still missing the draw occasionally, I reckon it's not the holster for me to carry in for defensive purposes. I'll still use it at the range though. Heck, maybe someday I'll master it...

OTOH, lots of people had no problems with the holster. I do like it, it is one of only two paddle holsters I actually like. It's comfortable, fast (when I don't, impervious to the elements, and actually makes my Beretta look good. I'd certainly recommend trying one out. My CCQ Sporter version only cost $30, so it's not going to break you if you end up not liking it.

 

[Cygnus]

Thanks guys. Good points in both posts. Mine will cost about $45, but I think I'll give it a shot. I have a cheap "one size fits most" belt loop or metal belt clip that I just don;t trust.....

 

[bwframe]

Thanks guys. Good points in both posts. Mine will cost about $45, but I think I'll give it a shot. I have a cheap "one size fits most" belt loop or metal belt clip that I just don;t trust.....

Whoa there friend. Just my opinion, but let this thread run for a day or so before you jump.

There are those that will say they want nothing to with using your trigger finger for anything but trigger work. Some even say that this type of holster is dangerous.

What I can say for certain is that this safety is like any other safety. It's a mechanical device that can fail.

 

[pftraining_in]

Use caution with the Serpa system. If the spring is damage or fails, the pistol is stuck in the holster. If the Serpa fails you will have to cut the pistol out of the holster. The Serpa lever can also become stuck in the locked positions by something as thin as a business card. The holsters are known to lock up when sand, small rocks and other debris enters the gap between holster and lever.

Blackhawk will not stand behind the holster if it fails.

Serpas have also been attributed to negligent discharges. Due to the position of the lock, the trigger finger will sometimes ride the holster and enter the trigger guard under stressful situations.

 

[jeremy]

Use caution with the Serpa system. If the spring is damage or fails, the pistol is stuck in the holster. If the Serpa fails you will have to cut the pistol out of the holster. The Serpa lever can also become stuck in the locked positions by something as thin as a business card. The holsters are known to lock up when sand, small rocks and other debris enters the gap between holster and lever.

Blackhawk will not stand behind the holster if it fails.

Serpas have also been attributed to negligent discharges. Due to the position of the lock, the trigger finger will sometimes ride the holster and enter the trigger guard under stressful situations.

Really the holster are known to lock-up with sand and debris... I have carried one in Iraq on multiple tours in some of the worst conditions and never had a problem with it. Matter of fact I know of no one that has had a problem with at all...

Blackhawk not standing behind there product I find that hard to believe.

As far as ND's are concerned they can happen with any type of holster.

Just my .
YMMV accordingly of course...

 

[Steve MI]

Having seen the holster jamb up so to speak in az and seeing reports of this happening at various matches and classes yes it does happen.

having mine lock the gun in place in a DT class while I was slammed to the ground and the gun became locked in place. having seen it also happen at a match were a compeitor went to the ground to go prone on his side........ no luck gun jambed in holster. having taken an officer to the wall gun side(in training) and watching it happen it again no thanks there are issues it happens these things werent covered by BH since the holster was dismantled to get the gun out.


there are issues a lot of them seen in a lot of places. with a lot of issues,
why risk it,

 

[shooter521]

having mine lock the gun in place in a DT class while I was slammed to the ground and the gun became locked in place.

I call BS on anybody being able to slam you to the ground...

Back on-topic... the obstruction/lock-up issue with the SERPA holsters is well documented (just because it didn't happen to you or your guys in the sandbox, doesn't mean it didn't happen to anyone, or even several "anyones"), as are the ND issues.

Good reading here, if you're a member:
Login To: Lightfighter Tactical Forum

The SERPA wouldn't be my personal choice, though I know several guys who use and like them. If I need an extra level of security, I run the Safariland ALS; IMO, the release mechanism is better protected (both from grab attempts and from the introduction of debris) while at the same time being more natural to disengage, and not involving the trigger finger.

My

 

[Cygnus]

OK.
More things to consider here then.
What about the Fobus holsters that are similar but do not have the serpa lock?

The gun kind of clicks into the frame and will stay in if you shake it upsidedown.

Will these provide more retention than a standard without the risk of the serpa lock-up?

 

[lawrra]

I've read/seen a few things that have me wary of buying one of these from Blackhawk. ND has been the most common drawback that I've read about, with the placement of the release button, and the other being that it looks kind of flimsy. I've never tried one, but the construction looks a bit lacking to me. This could all change if I try one out without issues.

I have been considering picking up a similar holster from iTac Defense. I noticed a couple of possible improvements over the Blackhawk by just looking at it: seemingly more rigid construction and a release button that looks to be higher on the frame, instead of being so close to the trigger guard. I just recently saw these in Combat Handguns, and haven't heard much about them, so don't change your mind all at once. But if I order one of these mamba jambas I'll be sure to post a review.

But these are just opinions; some are positive, some are negative. Make an informed decision. If you buy one and don't like it, just find a different one to try.

 

[shooter521]

What about the Fobus holsters that are similar but do not have the serpa lock?

Will these provide more retention than a standard without the risk of the serpa lock-up?

The Fobus friction lock will keep the gun from falling out of the holster, but no more than a tightly boned leather rig or a kydex holster with tension screws would; it's not a security device in the sense of the SERPA paddle or the ALS mechanism.

The Fobus holsters themselves are also pretty flimsy; I've seen more than one get destroyed in retention and counter-retention training. Typically, the holster body will separate at the rivets, or the holster will detach from the paddle. Either way, the BG comes away with your gun.

You'd be better served by a good Kydex holster with tension adjustments if you just need something durable that will keep the gun from falling out.

I have been considering picking up a similar holster from iTac Defense.

The iTac holsters are Israeli made and are somewhere between the Fobus and the SERPA in terms of construction. They are also sold under the "RSR Defense" brand name, and by Taurus as OEM equipment.

CDNN has 'em cheap:
Glock 17/22/31 Retention Defense Black Holster New RSR

 

[redneckmedic]

Practice makes perfect, try it, practice it, if you don't like it, sell it.

 

[lawrra]

Practice makes perfect, try it, practice it, if you don't like it, sell it.

Definitely do this.

 

[Cygnus]

The Fobus holsters themselves are also pretty flimsy; I've seen more than one get destroyed in retention and counter-retention training. Typically, the holster body will separate at the rivets, or the holster will detach from the paddle. Either way, the BG comes away with your gun.

That was why one guy advocated the serpa. A local shop owner wears a serpa but cautions against them. Says he draws dozens of times per day to practice.
Hell maybe a tradition holster or one the suggestions you and others have made.
Currently I'm using a belt loop one size fits most on a Ruger P-Series. It is only 3inches of material. While I trust it walking I think iot would like come out if I were slammed to the ground. (No simple feat though)

I'll check back later and shop around some more. Thanks folks...

 

[mettle]

Whoa there friend. Just my opinion, but let this thread run for a day or so before you jump.

There are those that will say they want nothing to with using your trigger finger for anything but trigger work. Some even say that this type of holster is dangerous.

What I can say for certain is that this safety is like any other safety. It's a mechanical device that can fail.

goods points. I've been using an Ucle Mike's forever b/c I just don't know what to buy...if anything

 

[jeremy]

Back on-topic... the obstruction/lock-up issue with the SERPA holsters is well documented (just because it didn't happen to you or your guys in the sandbox, doesn't mean it didn't happen to anyone, or even several "anyones"), as are the ND issues.

I did mean to make it sound like they never fail, just they do not fail as often as the poster appeared to make it sound. I did not have enough coffee in me at the time I made the earlier posting.

Like any holster out there you must practice with it. You must clean and service it. And what works for me may or may not work for you.

As far as a holster with retention the Serpa is the one out that I currently like. I have tried the Safari land ones and felt that they were a little awkward for me. I would like to get my mitts on one of the ones coming out of Israel to give it a try though.

 

[esrice]

As I've stated before, I'm also not a fan of the Serpa device. Besides the lock-up issues, you also have the fact that your trigger finger must do the manipulation of the lock, which is a bad thing. Pushing the lock while drawing can cause your finger to slip into the trigger guard and set you up for an ND. Tactical Response won't even allow them to be used in their classes for safety reasons.

 

[pftraining_in]

OK.
More things to consider here then.
What about the Fobus holsters that are similar but do not have the serpa lock?

The gun kind of clicks into the frame and will stay in if you shake it upsidedown.

Will these provide more retention than a standard without the risk of the serpa lock-up?

Another problem with the Fobus holsters is the material they are made out of. The material is very sensitive to temperature. When left in the cold the holster shrinks and will not allow the pistol to be removed. In the summer they expand and loose their "retention".

Below is on weak point of the design. IMHO the film is mis-titled. It should be why not to use a Fobus. You will have to double click on the link as embedding has been disabled.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDeKtgkZKmQ"]YouTube - Why you don't use a kydex paddle holster[/ame]

 

[Biohazard]

There are better holsters from better manufacturers. Specific make / model will depending on exactly what features you are looking for.

10-8 Forums: SERPA holsters