Having done both jobs, I don't agree.
-
Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
USAF Airman Killed in Wrong Address Police Incident
- Thread starter Route 45
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
There was a report of suspected domestic abuse by an untrained civilian walking by. Did anyone report seeing a battered victim or screams for help? I may be frustrating you and that is not intended. All my comments are with the benefit of not being there and watching the video over and over. Just a sad situation.
Is it? It's a catchy phrase used by simpletons who couldn't articulate their way through their morning bowel movement. It shouldn't be that hard to resist the urge to sound stupid.
"Unaccountable" in the US Military... bull.
And apparently you haven't been paying attention to the changes in LE in the last 60 years. Our town of 4,800+ population with 16 + - LEO and we have at least 4 M16's in the citys PD.
After watching the video, my thoughts...
1. The police officer was smart to stand off to the side.
2. The police officer was pretty quick to draw and shoot.
Most important take away...
3. FOR **** SAKE, DON'T OPEN THE ****ING DOOR FOR ANYONE UNLESS YOU ARE 100% CERTAIN YOU KNOW WHO IT IS!!!
If it's a bad guy, you've basically invited him in. If it's the police, they don't need you to open the door is they have the legal authority to enter your home. It's that simple.
So, who do I think is at fault? Both parties. Unfortunately, one party has paid the ultimate price for a lapse in judgment. We'll see what happens to the other side.
See below. Continue to do stupid stuff like this, I'll stand by what I said.
The fact that things like this end with just a resignation, instead of a very long prison sentence, like any of us would get, says all that needs to be said.
Just watched the body cam.
So they yelled "police", "sheriffs office", "open the door", and moved to the side so they couldn't be seen through the peephole.
I get it, officer safety. But what's to look stop a criminal from doing the same and shouting that?
Is it safe to assume a reasonable person would answer the door armed? Is the correct response to "light them up" over "officer safety" when they open the door?
Everyone is quick to jump on the officer safety bandwagon, yet I still see so many poorly positioned traffic stops where officer safety couldn't have been further from their minds when they activated their lights, initiated the stop and/or stopped the car and positioned theirs. Honestly surprised more aren't hit during traffic stops, but I think ISP has had many cars hit this year doing just that.
So they yelled "police", "sheriffs office", "open the door", and moved to the side so they couldn't be seen through the peephole.
I get it, officer safety. But what's to look stop a criminal from doing the same and shouting that?
Is it safe to assume a reasonable person would answer the door armed? Is the correct response to "light them up" over "officer safety" when they open the door?
Everyone is quick to jump on the officer safety bandwagon, yet I still see so many poorly positioned traffic stops where officer safety couldn't have been further from their minds when they activated their lights, initiated the stop and/or stopped the car and positioned theirs. Honestly surprised more aren't hit during traffic stops, but I think ISP has had many cars hit this year doing just that.
Wow, I have to say what a crappy situation all around. I've been vocally against raids and no-knock raids being overused in the past, and I still stand by my sentiment, however this situation is irrelevant to that. Mistakes were made on both sides, but mostly on the victim's side IMO.
First is answering the door with a gun is not a tactical decision to take lightly. If I'm answering the door with a gun, I'm probably not actually going to open the door, or at the very least keep out of view. But especially when someone bangs on the door shouting "Sheriff's Office" it is not wise to open the door proudly like that with a gun in hand. Fake cop or not, you'll likely get lit up. It would be wise to get a positive visual ID first. I can't be certain, but his door appeared to have a peephole.
The only thing I can fault the officer on is opening fire a little too soon. If I were in his position, I would like to think I would have my gun pointed at his chest with only a pound of finger force between cold and hot. It didn't seem that the victim had any intention of shooting at an actual officer. HOWEVER: One, I've never been in a situation like this and this is what I would hope I would have done in my comfiest armchair. Two, The victim may have had every intention to shoot the officer, but got lit up first (still highly doubt this was his intention, can't be certain though). Three, the officer was under the impression that there was a potential domestic violence situation going on, and someone answers with a gun. This was the wrong address, but it seems like he was getting his info from the locals, so unlike planned raids this was locals pointing him in the wrong direction.
I have also been vocally critical of officers when they do questionable things, but this to me is not nearly as ambiguous as some other incidents. I think I would have to weigh in favor more on the side of the officer, as the kid did not handle opening that door properly. On the officer's side, I have no problem with him drawing, but maybe take a milli-second to confirm intent before pulling the trigger. I also have anecdotes about this as well. Between my stepdad and uncle who have either witnessed and been a part of police standoffs where a gun was confirmed on the suspect/victim, shots fired was avoided by shouting "Drop you weapon!" before making the decision to shoot.
The acorn situation is still unacceptable and ridiculous.
First is answering the door with a gun is not a tactical decision to take lightly. If I'm answering the door with a gun, I'm probably not actually going to open the door, or at the very least keep out of view. But especially when someone bangs on the door shouting "Sheriff's Office" it is not wise to open the door proudly like that with a gun in hand. Fake cop or not, you'll likely get lit up. It would be wise to get a positive visual ID first. I can't be certain, but his door appeared to have a peephole.
The only thing I can fault the officer on is opening fire a little too soon. If I were in his position, I would like to think I would have my gun pointed at his chest with only a pound of finger force between cold and hot. It didn't seem that the victim had any intention of shooting at an actual officer. HOWEVER: One, I've never been in a situation like this and this is what I would hope I would have done in my comfiest armchair. Two, The victim may have had every intention to shoot the officer, but got lit up first (still highly doubt this was his intention, can't be certain though). Three, the officer was under the impression that there was a potential domestic violence situation going on, and someone answers with a gun. This was the wrong address, but it seems like he was getting his info from the locals, so unlike planned raids this was locals pointing him in the wrong direction.
I have also been vocally critical of officers when they do questionable things, but this to me is not nearly as ambiguous as some other incidents. I think I would have to weigh in favor more on the side of the officer, as the kid did not handle opening that door properly. On the officer's side, I have no problem with him drawing, but maybe take a milli-second to confirm intent before pulling the trigger. I also have anecdotes about this as well. Between my stepdad and uncle who have either witnessed and been a part of police standoffs where a gun was confirmed on the suspect/victim, shots fired was avoided by shouting "Drop you weapon!" before making the decision to shoot.
The acorn situation is still unacceptable and ridiculous.
I didn't see the individual point at the officer, nor did the officer tell him to drop the gun before he opened fire.
Open and shut murder case, IMO. Merely possessing a firearm is not grounds to shoot someone, otherwise police would have a very difficult time.
I'm not advocating officer safety, I'm more of the common sense tactics type of person. As a non police officer, if I knock on a stranger's door, I'm not standing in front of the door. That's just common sense and self preservation.
Would a reasonable person answer the door armed? Probably. Would a SMART person refuse to open the door unless they were absolutely certain who was on the other side? ABSOLUTELY!
I'm not siding with the police on this. At best, it was a questionable shooting, and that's giving insane amounts of "benefit of doubt". From what I've seen, it wasn't a good shoot, but that doesn't mean the victim was 100% faultless. If anything, this should be a good lesson that YOU SHOULDN'T OPEN THE DOOR!!!
The issue is the precedence.
The precedence that possessing a firearm means you are fair game to be shot by a police officer.
Site Supporter
Staff online
-
d.kaufmanStill Here -
GodFearinGunTotinSuper Moderator
Members online
- Bigdog357
- bacon#1
- madlaboratories
- Lee9
- jason867
- FreeLand
- mr_camera_man
- slims2002
- traderjoe
- SnoopLoggyDog
- d.kaufman
- Hawkeye7br
- Robert Richardson
- radar8756
- Mice54
- jdhilder56
- drillsgt
- Vbob1
- semperfi211
- Redacted
- Colt556
- loudgroove
- BeDome
- Alamo
- Sailor
- TTB Yeee
- Itchytriggerfinger
- Mark-DuCo
- dieselrealtor
- turnerdye1
- blain
- ChrisK
- VinceU1
- Chalky
- Bennettjh
- Brad69
- ZurokSlayer7X9
- GodFearinGunTotin
- hhi7410
- DDadams
- indyblue
- Triton
- injb
- NyleRN
- bigdaddy1427
- c604
- knutty
- Sagamore - One
- gryphnrider
- frenchiectfd2203
