Fan of cheap guns... or just a hypocrite?

[Bassat]

I have a penchant for inexpensive guns, and I've been on a revolver binge of late. I have posted about my less-than-stellar experience with SCCY, my initially poor experience with Kahr, and my initially poor experience with Charter Arms. To their Customer Service departments' great credit, both the Kahr CM9, and Charter Arms Off Duty, now run well. A little while back, I posted in a Taurus thread that I would not buy a Taurus due to their CS reviews. (See it coming, yet?)

For the last few weeks, I've been seeking positive reviews of a gun that really does interest me: Taurus 856 Defender. I found a lot of happy customers. I bought one. Several things convinced me: It is really hard to find a small, 3-inch, 6-shot, 38 special revolver... especially for less than $400. The S&W 60 is only 5-shot, and not available at all in blued or black finish. The S&W 19 is nearly as large and heavy as my 686+, and nearly as expensive. The Charter Arms Mag Pug is also only 5-shot, and only available in the (quite hideous) highly polished stainless steel. After watching several "Complete Takedown" videos, the Taurus looks much easier to work on than the Charter Arms. And last, but certainly not least, I like/prefer/desire consistency in my controls. S&W, CA, and Taurus revolvers all use the S&W style cylinder release. To me, this is not insignificant. Taurus appears to offer, exactly what I am looking for. Hence, the purchase.

The 856 Defender cost me $332 at Range USA. I expect to pick it up this coming Wednesday. More to come.

 

[LEaSH]

I'd like to get that 856 defender or something like it. I have no real purpose for it, other revolvers in my rotation seem to have it covered. But a good value always makes it a possibility. Just like the tisas 1911's that I don't need, they don't disappoint for the price. Sarsilmaz CZ copies are in that same category.

I bought a CSX for a little over $400 awhile back and applied for the $75 rebate card and it came through - and that is a nice micro 9mm. Despite the reviews that I've read, it never disappoints. It's not a tiny 1911, and I've not expected it to be. I don't know if s&w advertised it to be that, but it's not.

I'm liking the relatively low price of good firearms.

 

[Bassat]

I like low prices, too. Though I honestly believe that I just like tinkering, testing, shooting, and heaven help me, actually cleaning guns. Though I also hugely appreciate that my S&W 442 & 686+ just plain work.

 

[IN New Guy]

I have a penchant for inexpensive guns, and I've been on a revolver binge of late. I have posted about my less-than-stellar experience with SCCY, my initially poor experience with Kahr, and my initially poor experience with Charter Arms. To their Customer Service departments' great credit, both the Kahr CM9, and Charter Arms Off Duty, now run well. A little while back, I posted in a Taurus thread that I would not buy a Taurus due to their CS reviews. (See it coming, yet?)

For the last few weeks, I've been seeking positive reviews of a gun that really does interest me: Taurus 856 Defender. I found a lot of happy customers. I bought one. Several things convinced me: It is really hard to find a small, 3-inch, 6-shot, 38 special revolver... especially for less than $400. The S&W 60 is only 5-shot, and not available at all in blued or black finish. The S&W 19 is nearly as large and heavy as my 686+, and nearly as expensive. The Charter Arms Mag Pug is also only 5-shot, and only available in the (quite hideous) highly polished stainless steel. After watching several "Complete Takedown" videos, the Taurus looks much easier to work on than the Charter Arms. And last, but certainly not least, I like/prefer/desire consistency in my controls. S&W, CA, and Taurus revolvers all use the S&W style cylinder release. To me, this is not insignificant. Taurus appears to offer, exactly what I am looking for. Hence, the purchase.

The 856 Defender cost me $332 at Range USA. I expect to pick it up this coming Wednesday. More to come.

Hope your 856 Defender works better than mine did. Two trips back to CS and it was still was badly out of time. Took a local gunsmith to fix it. Had to pay him AND a Taurus bench fee.

 

[Bassat]

Thanks for the well-wishes. I've certainly read many similar comments about Taurus CS. Most in the last 5 years or so have been pretty positive. May I ask when your 856 was manufactured/serviced?

 

[92FSTech]

Looking forward to reading your review once you have it in hand. I just got off the boat and now we're hanging around the fire...I've been wearing the 642UC all afternoon and am loving this little revolver. I can barely even tell it's there.

 

[92FSTech]

bought a CSX for a little over $400 awhile back and applied for the $75 rebate card and it came through - and that is a nice micro 9mm. Despite the reviews that I've read, it never disappoints. It's not a tiny 1911, and I've not expected it to be. I don't know if s&w advertised it to be that, but it's not.

That's a killer deal on a nice little gun. My buddy has one and it's a great shooter...I just don't have a need for a tiny SAO in my life. If they made something that size in DA/SA I'd be trampling over people to get one!

 

[MrSmitty]

This is a mid 90’s Taurus model 85, 5 shot revolver, the blueing is as good as I’ve seen on a gun in a long time, deep rich blueing, lock up, and timing are great. So they did a great job not too long ago, they just went off track for a while. Good to see them putting out good guns again.

 

[Bassat]

I really like INGO. I learn something here on a regular basis. Like the 85 also came in a 3" barrel. Never knew that!

 

[Bassat]

Looking forward to reading your review once you have it in hand. I just got off the boat and now we're hanging around the fire...I've been wearing the 642UC all afternoon and am loving this little revolver. I can barely even tell it's there.

I feel the same about my CA Off Duty and 442. If you don't mind, what is your carry and spare ammo for the 642? I am using PPU 158gr SWC in a strip for BU on both guns, and still deciding between Georgia Arms 148gr WC, and Double Tap 148gr WC as my standard load. The GA is slightly snappier than the DT. GA is $24/20 rds. DT is $26/50 rounds. Both loads advertise 750fps out of 1-7/8" barrel. Gel/chrono tests online put both of them at 720-740.

 

[LEaSH]

That's a killer deal on a nice little gun. My buddy has one and it's a great shooter...I just don't have a need for a tiny SAO in my life. If they made something that size in DA/SA I'd be trampling over people to get one!

That's exactly what I want. CZ/colt should do something like that and I'm all in.

 

[NyleRN]

That's exactly what I want. CZ/colt should do something like that and I'm all in.

There's no market for it. At least not enough for it to be profitable. DA/SA pistols are a hard sell today. I believe the only reason manufacturers like Beretta, Sig and Hk can still sell DA/SA pistols is because of their name and legacy guns from decades past.

 

[Bassat]

I agree. DA/SA is going the way of the Dodo. Gimme a 1911, or a revolver. OK, I have taken a shine to my Kahr DAO, too. I had a Sig P220 many years ago. IMHO, DA/SA is an ND waiting to happen.

 

[92FSTech]

I feel the same about my CA Off Duty and 442. If you don't mind, what is your carry and spare ammo for the 642? I am using PPU 158gr SWC in a strip for BU on both guns, and still deciding between Georgia Arms 148gr WC, and Double Tap 148gr WC as my standard load. The GA is slightly snappier than the DT. GA is $24/20 rds. DT is $26/50 rounds. Both loads advertise 750fps out of 1-7/8" barrel. Gel/chrono tests online put both of them at 720-740.

Currently I have some Winchester PDX-1, and some handloads that replicate the Speer 135gr .38 +P Gold Dot Short Barrel load...but I can't find the factory stuff anywhere. When I do, I'll buy a bunch. I still have a box of the .357 Gold Dot Short Barrels for my 640...it's a fantastic load.

IMHO, DA/SA is an ND waiting to happen.

Why do you say that? I like DA/SA precisely because it provides a longer initial pull and the ability to thumb the decocked hammer when re-holstering. Also, when carried decocked there are no loaded springs to provide the necessary energy to fire the gun, unlike many striker-fired systems or SAO guns. IMO it's one of the safest trigger systems out there.

A nicely tuned DA/SA trigger is a thing of beauty, too, when it comes to actually shooting it.

That's exactly what I want. CZ/colt should do something like that and I'm all in.

A trimmer, lighter version of the Rami would be awesome, or a locked breech version of the Beretta Cheetah in 9mm. I'd buy both.

 

[Bassat]

92FSTech,
I should have been more clear about the DA/SA thing. I felt that I was more prone to ND with that type of trigger, and I never completely trusted the de-cocker. For me, a cocked & locked 1911-style gun is an easier model to master. The DAO trigger of revolvers, and DAO pistols (I have Kahr & Keltec) is the same, each and every time. Safer for me, is all I meant. Oh, I do believe DA/SA has become way less prevalent with the advent of striker-fired pistols.

 

[92FSTech]

I do believe DA/SA has become way less prevalent with the advent of striker-fired pistols.

No argument there, it definitely has. IMO, DA/SA is definitely not for everyone, as it takes some work to master the trigger pull transition, as well as the administrative function of de-cocking. And I've caught plenty of people trying to holster cocked DA/SA guns on the range, so it can definitely be a problem. I'm so used to shooting them at this point, though, that I catch myself trying to de-cock Glocks and P320s lol.

As to the mechanical safety of the de-cocker mechanism, I only have any significant experience with 3 types:

The Beretta 92 is beyond safe...actuating the lever rotates the firing pin plunger up and out of the way prior to dropping the hammer, and also has a firing pin block and disengages the trigger bar.

The Sig de-cocker never allows the hammer to reach the firing pin, and then the hammer is floated off the firing pin by the rebound spring. The Sig also has a firing pin block.

The CZ de-cocker also doesn't allow the hammer to reach the firing pin. It drops the hammer to a half (more like 1/4) cock notch, and also has a firing pin block.

Yes, all of these lower the hammer behind a live round, but they all have multiple redundant safety mechanisms built in, and IMO are far safer than manually lowering the hammer on a gun that's not equipped with a de-cocker. And I very much appreciate the fact that once de-cocked, there's no stored spring energy just sitting there waiting to be released towards a primer if the sear/hammer/striker engagement somehow releases. I know that should never happen, but Murphy has a way of making an appearance when we least expect him. At least when actuating the de-cocker, I'm in conscious control of the gun and can ensure that I'm pointing it in a safe direction.