You are confusing intent with purpose and capability of the tool.If you're ever on trial for a self-defense shooting, I hope you don't tell the jury this. You shoot to stop the threat. If the bad guy dies from his wounds, that's too bad, but your objective shouldn't be to kill. That won't be received well. =)You pull a gun, you are pulling it to kill, not maim, scare or incapacitate..
As is their job.I would hope their attorney would advise them as such if they were to go on the stand.
As with anything, you have options. Just because you have a gun does not mean you have to use it. Just because you can stand your ground does not necessarily mean that you should. It varies from situation to situation.Why do we need a stand your ground doctrine, then? Let's just call it a day and say a reasonable person has a duty to retreat, whether confronted with a serious threat or an annoying cretin.
Screw this guy. I'm turning left. He can wait. If he attacks me or my car, he has problems.
You all are missing the real story. With a name like "Hochstedler" the guy is obviously Amish and finally went nuts looking at women dressed in brown, black or purple. He hot wired a truck and was on a joy ride and found the gun. Not knowing what it was he was attempting to show it to the folks so they could help him. Sheesh.Here is an example of how not to handle a vehicle to vehicle confrontation.
ISP] Road Rage Results in Arrest
Start Date: 10/25/2011End Date: 10/25/2011Entry Description
Lake County, Indiana-Yesterday afternoon, Indiana State Police troopers responded to a call about someone pointing a firearm at another vehicle during a road rage incident.
Yesterday, Monday, October 24th, at approximately 3:11 p.m., Indiana State Police Lowell Post dispatch received a call about a motorist who pointed a firearm at another vehicle. The caller remained on the telephone line with the dispatcher and was following the offending vehicle. The caller gave a description of the vehicle with an empty trailer in tow.
Sergeant Lee Wright and Senior Trooper Dan Avitia located the vehicle; a 1999 gray Dodge pick-up with a trailer in tow and stopped the vehicle at I-80 east bound at the 19 mile marker (this is by the Portage exit).
When the driver was asked if he had a firearm in his truck he stated he did. A semi automatic weapon was located in the rear passenger compartment on the center floor board behind the center console. It was loaded but there was no round in the chamber.
The driver, John M. Hochstedler, 50 of Niles, Michigan denied pointing a firearm at another motorist.
The victim, from Portage, Indiana, stated they were traveling east bound on I-80 at Grant Street in the center left lane when Hochstedler was next to them in the center right lane. They stated that Hochstedler attempted to change lanes into their lane and they honked their horn to warn Hochstedler that he was about to hit their car. The victim stated they were unable to change lanes when Hochstedler tried to come over because of heavy traffic. The victim stated that Hochstedler caught up with their vehicle and was traveling side by side with them. The victim was able to see Hochstedler (the driver) clearly as he extended his middle finger. The victim then returned the gesture.
The victim then stated they put distance between their vehicle and Hochstedler when they saw the pick-up “zipping” in and out of traffic in an attempt to catch up with them.
Hochstedler then pulled his vehicle alongside the victim’s vehicle where they saw Hochstedler moving his lips and making angry facial expressions. They also observed he was holding his steering wheel with his left hand and holding a firearm in his right, pointing directly at the victim.
The victim was able to give a description of the driver, vehicle and the firearm to the troopers.
Hochstedler was taken to the Lake County J.ail and charged with Intimidation with a Deadly Weapon, a Class C Felony.
All suspects are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
I'm turning left. He can like it or lump it. He would be well-advised to remain in his vehicle.As with anything, you have options. Just because you have a gun does not mean you have to use it. Just because you can stand your ground does not necessarily mean that you should. It varies from situation to situation.
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If he busted out my driver side window and I had no route of escape, then the situation would be entirely different. Another example is if he were walking up to my car with a tire iron or other weapon in his hand, that would definitely be an escalation from the start.
It's nice to armchair quarterback all of this, but without being in the situation all I can do is speculate .
Good.I'm turning left. He can like it or lump it. He would be well-advised to remain in his vehicle.
Didn't say you did as far as I see, just saying you can handle the situation in a way that you feel is best. If you quote a passage where I said that you said it - then I will go ahead and apologize as maybe I misunderstood. I'm not above admitting I'm wrong, but I'm also not going to go back through and re-read the entire discussion over to make sure I did or didn't say something you think I may have said that you said.I never said anything about drawing a firearm.
My goal in life is not to educate the idiots, but to survive and prosper. Your goals and objectives may vary and the way you handle any given situation may be different.That being said, his exiting his vehicle and approaching my wife, with my kids in the car, is simply unacceptable behavior. Sure it may be better for us to run away from these situations, but I wonder what lesson that teaches the aggressive idiot who made us run? Are they likely to alter their behavior when we give them what they want?
I don't see where I said that you said you should/would/need to draw your weapon or where I specifically suggested it. I did acknowledge it was an option but I didn't specifically say whether it was a good option or not. I'm not jumping to any conclusions that I can tell, but you're welcome to point it out if I am. I mean... I never listed jumping out of your car, climbing on the roof, and beating your chest like a gorilla as an option either nor did I say that you did - but that doesn't mean you can't if you feel that's the thing to do .Again, I didn't mention drawing a gun at all. There's a lot of jumping to conclusions in these threads.
Never said venting was bad, just saying that "I probably would have shot them if I had a gun," is not the right mindset for somebody carrying a gun. I think we all are on the same page that this was a no-shoot situation, but obviously opinions will vary.All of the psychoanalyzing about 'anger issues' reminds me of all the do-gooders and the proliferation of social services and counseling that is being foisted off on our society these days. A person who gets angry at some ******* in this situation does not have an anger management problem. This is a totally normal response. It's also totally normal for the OP's wife to come home and vent. To jump from those normal emotional responses, to predictions that certain persons are too violent to carry arms, is totally baseless.
Good.
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No need to get quite so defensive, just trying to discuss the intricacies of this incident and the opinions presented thereafter. If I'm upsetting you, I do apologize .
Indeed, just seems people around here can get really bent out of shape really quick for almost no reason - so I try to make sure they don't on account of my posts.I'm not feeling that defensive. No apology necessary!
It's just a discussion after all...
There is no brandishing law in Indiana. Only a law against pointing a weapon at someone which is a felony if it's loaded. This is only if you are not acting in self defense though.
IC 35-47-4-3
Pointing firearm at another person
Sec. 3. (a) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting within the scope of the law enforcement officer's official duties or to a person who is justified in using reasonable force against another person under:
(1) IC 35-41-3-2; or
(2) IC 35-41-3-3.
(b) A person who knowingly or intentionally points a firearm at another person commits a Class D felony. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the firearm was not loaded.
She survived and I presume there was no injuries to anybody ... so that's a very bad mindset to have imho. The gun should be the last resort.
***snip***
The whole "If I had a gun, I would probably have shot somebody..." mindset is not the right mindset to have if you carry.
Thanks for all of your responses. We will be looking for some pepper spray and training. And just to clarify, my wife doesn't have an anger problem. She was just upset because it involved our girls. She went into "momma bear" mode and was venting to me. I will agree that avoiding the situation is priority #1. I carry anywhere I legally can but hope I never ever have to use my weapon, which I believe is everyone's goal as well.
I have no way of knowing in what sense it was really said as a third person account in a text based medium doesn't do a good job of conveying emotion . I, in this case, would presume the worst and hope for the best.it's called hyperbole. Women generally use it more often than men, and it's a cathartic measure. She wouldn't really have drawn a firearm and shot the douche. She doesn't even really wish she would have. It's just venting.
Haha, I guess I tend to make it a habit to not make empty threats or remarks that I don't fully intend to carry out. However unlikely it may be, I never want to end up on the stand after defending myself to have somebody be called as a character witness and testify that I regularly say "If I had my gun on me, I would have shot them." Hyperbole or not, it could be damaging .I say I'm gonna run over little vehicles who don't get out of my way on a daily basis. To date I haven't. (Can't say the same for Mr88GT though.)
And there are police/child services/prosecutors I am sure that would try and take your kids from you and put you in jail... Is that the norm? No, but I wouldn't put it past people these days.I tell my kids if they leave the backyard, I'll kill 'em. I won't.
it's called hyperbole. Women generally use it more often than men, and it's a cathartic measure. She wouldn't really have drawn a firearm and shot the douche. She doesn't even really wish she would have. It's just venting.
I say I'm gonna run over little vehicles who don't get out of my way on a daily basis. To date I haven't. (Can't say the same for Mr88GT though.)
I tell my kids if they leave the backyard, I'll kill 'em. I won't.
I have no way of knowing in what sense it was really said as a third person account in a text based medium doesn't do a good job of conveying emotion . I, in this case, would presume the worst and hope for the best.
Haha, I guess I tend to make it a habit to not make empty threats or remarks that I don't fully intend to carry out. However unlikely it may be, I never want to end up on the stand after defending myself to have somebody be called as a character witness and testify that I regularly say "If I had my gun on me, I would have shot them." Hyperbole or not, it could be damaging .
And there are police/child services/prosecutors I am sure that would try and take your kids from you and put you in jail... Is that the norm? No, but I wouldn't put it past people these days.
Now don't get me wrong, do what you want and say what you want - not passing judgement in any way .
What's worse hyperbole or lying? No judgment? Then why the need to lecture me?